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  #16  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:03 PM
yogurt yogurt is offline
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Have a scrap piece here I'll see tonight how long to heat and how hot will it get.

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  #17  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:06 PM
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Well, it doesn't look like its doing much but overall it looks better than I thought it would. Let's see how long it takes to get to 1500 F, more or less ...


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  #18  
Old 12-14-2015, 09:30 PM
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After cool down (mostly, it's cold here now) I had my neighbors 1500 degree max thermom with a probe.
Fired up at 3 psi and let run for 3 or 4 mins. Turned it up to 10 psi (danged noisy) and gave it 35 mins.

At 35 mins, temp on the floor next to the opening was at 500. About 4 " back (one brick) it was 1200. At bricks
3 and 4, it was over range. Pointing the probe upward to the ceiling near front, it was 1100.

Has been shut down now for an hour and the bare bricks are still too hot to handle with bare skin.

With the burner fix I did, this thing may work out!?


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  #19  
Old 12-14-2015, 09:32 PM
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Once hot, I put 2 in piece of scrap 440C into the flame and it was BRIGHT red in less than a minute.


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  #20  
Old 12-14-2015, 10:16 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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'Bright red' is subjective, of course, but it sounds like just barely forging temp for 1084 and probably hot enough for heat treating 1084 too so that's good. Although you said you put the 440c 'into the flame' I am assuming that you did not have the burner pointed directly at the steel (or anywhere near it) since we talked about that earlier. If the burner is pointed at the steel that would be a BIG problem.

35 minutes is a long time to heat a forge but if that doesn't bother you then it isn't a problem. All those different temp readings seem to indicate that even after 35 minutes the forge hasn't evened out the temp . A knife blade will be sitting on the floor so we want the floor and the atmosphere just above the floor to be a consistent temp over an area long enough to hold your blade. The temp of the roof and walls isn't so much an issue....


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  #21  
Old 12-14-2015, 10:23 PM
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So Ray and others,

The 440C I've finished (that are still without scales) will be going with a batch of others for pro HT and cryo.

I also now have in stock a flat of CPM194CM But I believe to get properly hardened, it should go with the batches to the pro. (Jump in here anywhere and bang my head if I'm off kilter )

So, what is a good carbon steel I should order to do a warm oil, oil or water quench and give me good edge durability? 1080/1084? I seen it mentioned...

I've shown several finished but not properly heat treated samples to folks here and have 5 willing to pay commissions now. What will quench harder straight from the forge?

Thanks!!!

Chris


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  #22  
Old 12-14-2015, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
'Bright red' is subjective, of course, but it sounds like just barely forging temp for 1084 and probably hot enough for heat treating 1084 too so that's good. Although you said you put the 440c 'into the flame' I am assuming that you did not have the burner pointed directly at the steel (or anywhere near it) since we talked about that earlier. If the burner is pointed at the steel that would be a BIG problem.

35 minutes is a long time to heat a forge but if that doesn't bother you then it isn't a problem. All those different temp readings seem to indicate that even after 35 minutes the forge hasn't evened out the temp . A knife blade will be sitting on the floor so we want the floor and the atmosphere just above the floor to be a consistent temp over an area long enough to hold your blade. The temp of the roof and walls isn't so much an issue....
No flame on the blade! It was back in the hottest part of the box to the side of and in front of the flame.

A bit extra propane is not an issue right now... I just need to get some steel that I cut make, harden and sell.

If they have to keep it oiled that's not a biggey right now.


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  #23  
Old 12-14-2015, 11:57 PM
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1084 and canola oil are an excellent combo and can produce very high quality blades .

I've never heard of CPM194CM. If you meant CPM154 or 154CM then, yes, those are not suitable for a forge and should go to a professional heat treater ...


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  #24  
Old 12-15-2015, 02:38 AM
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Yep... 154 is what I meant. Evening cocktails are rough on my typing. Always check time stamp as verification of my posts!

1084 is my next search!

Thanks as always!


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  #25  
Old 12-15-2015, 05:12 AM
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Hard to tell from pics but doesn't look like the forge is going to get near hot enough to forge in. Whole thing should be glowing bright reddish orange for any serious heat transfer.
Thinking the fire brick is stealing all your thunder.
Good catch on the torch issue. Always have to fine tune them once you get them installed. They will perform a bit different inside the forge than outside. Back-pressure and chamber volume have a lot of influence on performance.


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  #26  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:20 AM
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Not much to search for on 1084, there is a Sticky at the top of the forum listing sources for it ...


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  #27  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:32 PM
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Fired up again today for a while... testing at different fuel psi levels. Lit the burner at 1 psi (I like that!) and let it run for 10 mins at 4 psi. Increased to 13 psi for 15 mins and shutdown. Entire inside was glowing red for almost 5 mins with no fire.

I'm thinking it will be hot enough. Still waiting on infrared gun...

Interior of firebox is ~15". I had intentionally drilled the hole for the burner, off-center to the rear. Turned that brick around this morn, moving the flame closer to the front. Made a seemingly big difference in getting the whole box hot.

Thanks for the info on 1084 link!

Try and get some coming this way tomorrow morn.

usaknifemakers.com has been down for two days to me... other links working.


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Last edited by yogurt; 12-15-2015 at 09:35 PM.
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:42 PM
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NJ Steel baron is out of 1084, and Admiral does not show any either.

I do see CRA 1095 at Admiral. Appears to have reasonable Hardening and tempering values
for a noob. Opines on the 1095?


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  #29  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:53 PM
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Another question. (imagine that!)
All the oil quench tanks I recall seeing, are vertical, rather than laid out like a horse trough.

Does a vertical dip help prevent warping? Am I understanding this right?


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  #30  
Old 12-15-2015, 10:50 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Vertical dipping may prevent warping if done correctly. Either up and down or back and forth like you are trying to cut through the oil. No sideways movement. I have a roasting pan if I ever want to try edge quenching again. Mostly I use a turkey fryer for quenching.

Another steel that you might try, if Also has it in stock, is 80CrV2. From what I understand you won't be able to tell it from regular 1080.

As far as if that forge is getting hot enough to forge with see if it will get the steel hot enough that it will become non-magnetic. That's what you will need for heat treating and will be minimal for forging one of the more simple steels like that ones that have been mentioned to you.

I would avoid the 1095 because you don't have the heat control necessary to get reliable results with it. Also be aware that not all 1095 is created equal and some of it doesn't have a good reputation with all smiths on these boards.

Doug


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