Newbie KITH?

[Shakudo]

Cavetech...............what makes you think you need a forge or beltgrinder to make a good knife? most anyone can make a very serviceable knife with next to no equipment. all you need is a hand drill,a couple files,sandpaper,and a metal cutting saw of some kind. along with a little will power and a few months most anyone can make a knife. maybe even 5-6 hours of straight work will do it.

[Peter_E_Ryt]

Aye- Shakudo's got this right! You've got 6 months. If you draw out the shape of the blade on your steel one day, drill one hole a day around the perimeter until it's finished, then cut out the profile one inch per day, then profile it one inch per day, etc. etc., you still will have ample time. This is your chance to make the jump and have fun while you're at it!

Hey Shakudo- is that just a bit of copper on the steel with a patina? How'd you do that?

[BigD]

I been thinking about this and I think I have an objection. Why is it just for newb's? So we can upset others that want to play? I sat back and thought why am I doing this , Hammerdownnow hit it on the head , its for the people , meeting new people. I dont care how the knives look , they will have 110% effort put into each and every one of them. Whatever I get I'll be pleased with. Whoever gets mine will be fine with it as well , but I will have made 10 or so new friends, and everyone will have shared their knowledge of knifemaking. THATS THE POINT , not the knives.
Dont feel inferior if you've only been making knives for a short time , and someone else has been at it for many years. If you get their knife you'll be very happy , and they will cherish their new friends knife because they will know that you did your very best making it. They started with a file and sandpaper just like everyone here. I am not speaking from experience , because I have none. I am just stating my opinion.

[Peter_E_Ryt]

Big D- you got the same thing that I did from Hammerdownnow's post, but there are a couple of reasons that I want to keep this newbie.
-This newbie one is meant to be somewhat parallel to the Spring one, but with a longer due date, so that anyone who wants to be in both have a chance. I don't want this to stop you or anyone else from KITHing (I'm not sure about this word...) with the more experienced.
-By keeping it newbie allows noobs to teach noobs. I doubt that HDN, or any of the other, more experienced makers are quite a new as this
-Finally- this is meant to get people started in KITHs and joining the community. No matter what should be thought about when you enter a KITH- it's still intimidating when your's isn't quite as nice as most of the others. When it's a bunch of new guys, you can enter with no reserves, trying out a couple of new things, and knowing for sure that your best is your best. It's kind of like a gateway

If it really bothers many expereinced people enough, I'll try and organize a KITH of some sort for Summer.

I hope that this clears things up. I also want to hear from the rest of yall. If BigD isn't the only one feeling like this, remember, this thing is still in the making and doesn't officially begin for a while.

[jdm61]

This KITH was devised for folks (like me...lol) who might feel a bit uncomfortable with a regular one or want to encourage new makers to get together and share horror stories....lol This is not unprecedented. Notice that the ABS has a Master and Journeyman auction knife every year at Blade, but not an Apprentice knife, even though I have a met a couple of guys, who by B.R, Hughes own admission, presented Master Smith level work for their journeyman test........John White and Rik Palm, to name a couple. They could have made a blade just as fine as any of the Journeymen smiths i would argue, but the category is for those who have already reached that level. I would argue that our little KITH is no different. While many new makers may not feel nervous about sending a knife to a great knifemaker and receiving his in return, I am at some level, and I think others may be too. The knifemaking community has set the quality bar pretty high in the last 20 years....lol What I might suggest is that those of us who are attending these various shows and hammer ins bring our KITH knives with us when we attend and show them around. Use this KITH as a way not only to gain experience and make new friends, but to also to "announce our presence" We are not trying to intentionally offend anyone......remember....this is a newbies group.....i am sure that having a seperate group for us was not done to exclude us from asking silly, bothersome questions in the "advanced" 'forums, but to give us a forum where we could be comfortable in the beginning of our LONG to knifemaking perfection...lol Same concept here.

[Jim Charles]

I’ve given some thought (thought is a difficult thing for me) to your posts pointing to this KITH. Anyway, I’ve come to the conclusion that you have a great idea because it will bring new people into experiencing something, for some, what is a very Zen and creative hobby. There are so many people that don’t realize their potential in something that they probably never gave any thought to before. Many come with various skills: woodworking, metal working in various forms, art, sculpture, you name it there are more skills than you can shake a stick at and many applicable to this art form.

My hats off to you and I think it should be limited to new people, in my opinion.

[SKIVIE]

I think what you guys are doing is great. I remember when I first started out which wasnt very long ago and felt nervous to join a kith because I was new, So I totally understand where your coming from. I wouldnt mind joining this but because i cant because ive been making knives over a year doesnt bother me for one minute. Ive got to many things to worry about than to belly ache over why I cant join a KITH. Keep up the good work guys and I will look forward to seeing what comes of this. Lets see some neat knives and creations.

Shane

[Peter_E_Ryt]

Glad to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions!

Now it is time to work on coordinating the finished product

Here's are my current thoughts after researching, reading, etc.

-The KITH will Officially begin Jan 1.
-Anyone with less than a year of knife making under their belt as of December is welcome to either PM me, post on one of the threads on the various knife forums, or email me to join in until May 1.
-Names will be drawn out of the hat on May 1.
-After names are drawn, it is yalls responsibility to contact each other to get the information on shipping down. If you are sick or plan on taking a break from the computer on May 1st and the following week, make sure to inform us here on this thread so that you don't get left out.
-Everything is to be sent out May 31. If you can't get it done that day, it's fine- we've all got lives to live. It must be sent out by June 7 though.
-A new thread will be started on June 2, where yall can post pics of the knives, as well as opinions, critques, etc. With the pics, yall have to say what yall want the next KITH to be.
-To the recipients- yall will all have a 1 of a kind custom knife sometime in June- show it off and use it. Take it to your local show, show your friends, use it to field dress the next buck you take down, and then give a field report.

Always Remember- have fun, no reservations, we're a bunch of noobs here, so do your best and have a good time while doing it!

[jdm61]

Little bit of thinking out loud. Don't put a lot of pressure on yourselves. This is what I plan to do. I have several blades awaiting stamping and heat treat. I shall undoubtedly make a few more before April or so. The one that turns out the best will be the one I submit. The thinking being that i am not pressured to make the "one perfect knife" but I will just continue with what i have ben doing. If you guys want to post some pics, just show what you are currently working on and are pleased with......or your screw ups.....i am still over 50% in that category....lol. Ask for feedback and see if others have had similar problems. who knows? We may have some nice suprises come May 1.

[hammerdownnow]

You guys have the same feelings that everyone has experienced when they start. This same subject comes up at the beginning of every kith. The same answer is alway given and was repeated so much that Dana made the sticky post to referr to on the spirit of the kith. Every new maker, without exception, has the same feeling that his work is not up to parr yet and wonders if his offering would be worthy. No one twists anyones arm to join in on a trade. If a more experienced maker joins in, he does so with his eyes wide open. Maybe he has been there and raised his own bar by joining the kiths and trying his to do his best. Now that he has improved he wants to give a little back. That would be in keeping with the spirit. It is cool to have all kinds of kiths and it is good to see lots of them going on.
The only thing that worries me is for us to fall into an "us vrs. them" type thing. After 5 years here, I still consider myself a noobie. These guys have welcomed us in. Shared their knowlege and not once have I ever heard anything but encouragement and constuctive help from any of them. Never once was I ever banned from any games they thought up. The spirit of the forum as a whole is, all for one and one for all. The spirit of the kiths is designed as a learning tool to get you to raise your own bar. To get you to push yourself to your limit and beyond.
Believe me, I know the fear of thinking I might send something off that might be considered a POS.(still have it). Checking and double checking the heat treat instructions for a particular steel. Taking the finish to one higher grit. Backing up two grits and starting over. I have ran over time by worring myself sick over trying to get things right and freezing up. Starting three blades at once so I have a back-up for my back-up. On and on, stress after stress. But still, exciting and fun! I feel partisipating in the kiths has made me a little better. Excluding people from the trades seems like lowering the bar to me. Calling it a "Noobie KITH" is a good idea. Excluding people? I am not sure that is a good idea.

I hope no one takes what I say personally. It's just some thoughts I had on the subject. I know I said I was done talking before Maybe I'll shut up now.

[jdm61]

or backing up 2 grits.........and backing up 2 grits...............and backing up untill there is no steel left

[TikTock]

I have been making longer than a year, but felt like signing up....that ok? I will surely do something new that I havent tried before....perhaps that should be the type of kith....not necessarily newbies, but people trying something they are new at....

For me, it will probably be forging, maybe an integral? Never done a subhilt....

[Brett Holmes]

tictok i dont think anyone will have a problem with you joining in. i personally dont.
i think any one can join even if theyve been making knives for 35years. i think the 1 year thing should be more looked upon as a guideline for the quality of knife people should expect to receive. because i know there is no way i would even consider sugesting to someone that they cant sign up, without most of the people on these forums i would not be able to make a knife. there is one maker in particular who is solely responcible for every knife i have ever or will ever make, because if he hadnt sold me his old multi tool cheap, i would have never been able to afford to make anything.

on another topic, has any one decided what theyre gonna make yet. i think i will go for a lock back folder with a warncliff blade. i've never done a warncliff yet so am looking forward to givving it a try. it will be my 6th knife and 4th folder hopefully i will get some stainless for christmas and will be able to use that for the blade. im hopeing to receive a nice hunter or skiner in return or maybe a small bowie, we'll see hey, thats one more exciting element, the luck of the draw to see what you receive.

Brett Holmes

[Andrew Garrett]

There seems to be sufficient descention as to warrant a reconsideration of the rules.
I said it. Hammer and BigD said it too. As intimidated as we noobs might be about offering our work up and possibly getting a far better knife in return (making us feel like we let someone down), it seems a far worse thing to set a hard and fast rule regarding time spent as a knifemaker, excluding those who may wish join.

Besides, I've made ten knives in about 7 months. Some guys make 25 in the same time frame. Maybe a hobbiest has been making for 3 years and has only made a half dozen. The point is this; experience cannot be measured in terms of time. It is the quality of learning achieved in that time that matters, and that quality is raised when you bring yourself closer to those you wish to learn from rather than excluding them.

The knife I recieved from Randy Skidmore in the last Kith (my first), was very different than anything I have made. It is a hidden tang, forged knife with a guard. I make full tang, stock-removal knives with no guards. I have studied that knife very closely and it has opened my eyes to options I had not considered before. It TAUGHT me something and continues to do so. That's the point isn't it?

Just say 'Newbie KITH' to let everyone know what the focus is. If the old dogs who sell $500 knives want to offer something that they believe some lucky newbie might learn from, then welcome their generosity and don't feel bad if they get a stereotypical 'newbie knife'. I'm betting that they have plenty of good blades to cut what they wish to cut. Repay their generosity by studying the knife and learning something so that one day you can pass that lesson on making sure this craft never dies.

Remember this and quote me often! "The skill of the apprentice is the legacy of the master." (I just made that up. Too corny?)

It not my barbeque, so I'll just shut up and watch the game now.

[Peter_E_Ryt]

Aye- I have heard the people, and now I respond!
Hear ye, peoples young and old- if you consider yourself a noob, feel free to join in!
BTW: Andrew- it's a public BBQ- as long as you bring something worthwhile, feel free to stay. Anyway- you're already part of the KITH, so you're input is required as a member of the Noob KITH.

As far as what I'm gonna make is concerned- I'm a noob to the nth degree, with only a couple of blanks under my belt and some blacksmith work, so everything is a fun and new experience for me. I want the knife to be legal to carry in most places, so it'll be about 3.75". I also want in to be classy(ish), so I might go with either horn or wood, but no micarta, also- I'm working on mokume, so I think that mokume bolsters would be cool. My three big questions at this point are: 1. Horn or wood (if wood, what type) 2. What type of blade (chain damascus or a nice, edge quenched O1 blade) 3. And what type of sheath.