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  #1  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Lightbulb Forge building question?

So I am putting together a simple forge for trying my own heat treat and had a question.The main body of the forge is going to be hard fire brick with refractory cement with a 3 inch steel pipe insert cemented inside the firebrick structure. First question is should I line the pipe with the cement to better the insulating of the pipe? Any input is appreciated as always.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Insulate the pipe from what? It already has a bunker built around it that could take a direct atomic blast. That's just my snarky way of saying that you will use a lot of propane and a lot of time trying to heat up that forge to get it to the point where you can heat treat your blades. There simply is no need to put that much mass into a heat treat forge. A simple sheet metal tube and a layer of Kaowool is all you need.

To answer your question directly though, the burner will burn away the steel in the part of the pipe the burner is aimed towards so you will need to either line it with something or make it replaceable. I am serious about having to heat all that up before you can hold a steady temperature inside the forge, that takes time and fuel so give it some thought ...


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Old 02-17-2014, 07:10 PM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Ok I scrapped the "bunker forge" and am gong to try using a coffe can and refractory cement to make one. This should be plenty for my needs just need to get it done work out the kinks.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:41 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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OK, that's better but consider scrapping the refractory cement too. Cement is cement and all you need is a couple square feet of Kaowool, around $20 delivered and even that is probably enough for a couple of forges. You can water down a little bit of that refractory cement until it is literally the consistency of regular house paint and then paint it over the wool interior of your new forge. That's all the cement that is needed. One of those bricks will make a nice back end for the forge and another, or part of one can be used to partly close the front end. If you have a sliver of brick or can cut one that is maybe 1.5" wide and as long as the original brick that makes a good floor in the forge. A forge like this can be built in about an hour and for almost no money. Easy to build, easy to replace, and you can stick almost any kind of burner in it. They heat fast, cool down fast, and are cheap to run. The basic design can be shrunk down to a soup can or blown up to any reasonable size for heat treat or forging or forge welding...


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Old 02-19-2014, 06:32 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Ray's giving some very good advice here. The hard firebrick will suck up all your heat until it reaches proper temp. Very big fuel waste. You can "slice" the hard firebrick to thin slabs quite easily with a side grinder and a masonary cut off wheel. Just do it outside with a fan to blow the dust away from you - going to make a lot. You can also carve up a slotted rack to hold your blades off the floor (which can cause drooping and warping) with a little practice and thinking. Keep it thin and light and it will not act like a big heatsink using up a bunch of fuel. It will heat up just like the blade and actually help stabilize the heat somewhat in the forge.


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  #6  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:28 AM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Alright i assembled it to the point where all I need to do is cut the floor plate out of the brick. My next question is does the interior of the chamber have to be perfectly round inside to get a good swirl for this small of a forge? Also what bernzo torch should i use as of right now I am using the old plain jane brass valve torch in a box to just see how it works. I'm also wondering if i should be able to carve the rack and floor from the the same sliver of brick if i'm careful with the grinder. Again thank you everyone for all the info and will post picks once i get it whipped up.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:50 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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If you're going to make a rack then you probably don't need the floor, either one will do although the rack might be better, just a bit harder to make.

No, the interior doesn't have to be perfectly round, the wool is too lumpy for perfection anyway, but the closer you can get the better.

Can't really say about the torch as you gave no hint as to the size of the forge body. Basically though, none of the Bernz torches will do very well as they come out of the box. Those torches provide a tiny focused flame and that's not enough for a forge.

I don't know what plan you're following but I did make a torch work in a small forge (see http://www.rayrogers.com/miniforge.htm ) This design used to torch to supply only the gas - the torch itself is not lit. In order to get enough gas the orifice in the end of the torch had to be made larger which ruins it for use as a torch. Then, to get that much gas to burn properly, I added a small blower to force air into the forge.

That's one way, there are many others - all kinds of simple burners that can be built but the torch alone isn't likely to get the job done. One easy and about as cheap as you'll find solution is the $50 burner that usaknifemakers.com sells. A complete burner plus regulator and hose for that price is hard to beat ....


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Old 02-20-2014, 09:56 AM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Thank you for the quick response ray your being more help then you know. The chamber is right 4" at the opening and right at 7" deep. I just ran out and bought a mapp torch so that is going to help a little bit. Looking into a real burner and such but kinda saving the funds for when i build the real deal. This little one is already teaching me a few things to do and a lot more not tho do on it's big brother when it comes time. Again thank you for the info as always.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:43 AM
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That's small enough it might have a prayer. Let us know how it goes. If necessary, we can get into how to build a little burner ...


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Old 02-20-2014, 04:40 PM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Ok so i wasn't overly happy with the way my first one turned so i found a smaller coffee can and re-made it. This time I doubled up the wool and thinned out the cement. Also cut a thin piece of fire brick about a 1/4" thick and put a trench down the center to allow the blade to be stood upright. The other one was what you guys called a heat sink it took forever to warm up and it was so uneven in the heat zones that some serious redesign is in order. The brick does make an excellent door which i notched a 2"x2" opening in to so you can leave them in place when working with it. Waiting for the smaller one to dry with that paste on the wool and hope to fire it up tomorrow. will post pics of both for future what and what not to do's. Thanks again for the advice so far.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:11 AM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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These are a few pictures from my efforts if you see anything that could be done to either improve or critique please feel free to comment. Thanks for looking.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1048 (600x800).jpg (260.9 KB, 27 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_1051 (600x800).jpg (243.9 KB, 26 views)
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:20 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Cut a notch in two soft fire brick or build a metal frame to raise is up off the combustible surface. Maybe even two regular bricks set parallel to the can to nestle it. Usually most of us would put the torch more towards the mid point but see what that does for you.

Someone around here has plans for a mini blown burner that would give you more control of the heat and might allow you to heat treat larger blades in the same forge by raising the temperature a bit and reducing hot spots. I have a 7" deep forge with a blown burner that I could heat treat a 12" blade in if I watched what I was doing to distribute the heat.

Doug


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