Dealer inquiry

I am just starting out dealing custom knives and want some info on how to be successful. Also what do you as buyers want to see from a dealer?


Peace

Paul
Circle P Knives
expage.com/circlepknives

Hi Paul,
How goes it?

This is a difficult question and very broad. I've been collecting for a bit and while I do trade and sell knives off I don't do it for a living. This will mean that my perspective of this will probably not be like yours. What I can tell you is what I look for in a knife dealer. Many of these things are the same things I look for in a knifemaker

First and foremost is honesty. As we all know "stuff" happens, can't help it, that's life. What I won't accept is excuses, If you have a problem getting something to me or you don't have it in stock tell me so. Maybe you don't want to say why something happened (it's personal) fine, maybe you forgot or missplaced the form, I won't be happy about it, but I'll be a lot angrier if you lie or pass the buck on it (ex. UPS did it when they didn't). This takes me to number 2 which is communication.

Communication to me covers a lot of stuff, part I mentioned before, if I order something and it can't make it to me by the agreed upon time, let me know. Make sure you answer your e-mails and phone messages. No I don't expect a call this second, but 24-48 hrs is good and monday after the weekend is also quite acceptable, longer than this and I start to wonder. With the internet the way it is now everyone else will expect this too. This is very important to you and not just from the first time buyer (or the buyer in general) how you deal with people over questions and other satisfaction issues (meaning all the complaints and non-purchase calls) is what will dictate your repeat customers.
People have to know your out there and what you have. A website is probably a neccessity. the website itself should be easy to get around, have reasonably good quality pictures and every page should probably have your contact information on the bottom.

Warranty, people want to know that you stick behind what you sell. Ok here you are selling someone elses product, so it's a little more difficult you can't fix it yourself or send them a loanere while waiting for it to get fixed. But (and here it's back to communication) you should have a policy that protects both you and your customer.

price - I put this last because for me it's the least important, but for some price is the only deciding factor. Of course a better price will bring in more customers. Some will want more service and will be willing to pay the difference. Till now I have only bought from a few dealers. One is a storefront and I've known him personally for many years, nother is an internet dealer by the name of James Mattis (of beloved memory) he was a great guy, but passed away last year. The one time I did buy stuff from a large internet knife dealer I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth. I had ordered a BM 730 ares and a BM toolkit (torx set for the knives). The BM730 was on backorder, I was notified by e-mail and asked whether I still wanted it (a good sign + ) and if yes would I like the BM toolkit sent anyway or when the 730 was in. Since it made no sense to pay shipping for the toolkit alone I said send it at the same time. 3 weeks later I got the 730 by itself. Was this a harsh experience, no not really, they tried there best, but I realized that I prefer a more personal service, this company had gotten very big very quickly and there order dept had kept up, but not there shipping and not there inventory. I went to them because of the good price. Today I do not use them at all.
In the custom arena I think that people will want the personalized service.

Paul,

Follow Jerry's advice and you'll win!

Jerry, when you buy one on speculation, what are you looking for?


Alex

What do you mean by speculation? An unknown maker or for direct resell. Cause I don't resell for profit. I resell cause I want something else or I give 'em away.

Buy what you like!

First rule of knife collecting, bar none. Don't buy to resell, don't buy for profit, if you haven't been doing this for a while you'll get burned. Have I personally been burned. Yes, but not to badly, with factory stuff and while I've been told by some that certain customs I own were not worth the money but, I don't mind cause I'm not selling them anyway because I like 'em.

With unknown's it's a judgement call and you have to go by personal experience. With the internet you can probably find someone who can give you some insight as to the knifemaker, are they any good knifewise and business wise. Let me give you an example. I bought 2 knives from Jens Anso. He is relatively unknown and to make things even more difficult not in the states so I couldn't even try to catch him at a knife show and see his stuff. I liked the look of his stuff first off, I checked out his website and I paid attention to people who had bought from him and what there reactions where. Was the knife worth it? Was he easy to deal with? Did he get back to you in a reasonable amount of time? The answers regarding Jens where all yes, so I e-mailed him and started the process. I wanted damascus, he told me what he had, if that was good next question if not he'd get me whatever I wanted. I chose some nice "Vinland" pattern damasteel damascus. I wanted a wood handle, he gave me a few material choices and I went with the one I didn't have. The give and take in ordering is very important, but always within limits you can't force the guy to make something he doesn't normaly make (well you can but the results I find are usually, but not always unsatisfactory). This is where I put in my personal judgement, but don't go to far either, once you have made the knifemaker purchase special stuff for your knife, I don't think it's honorable to back out. If it's a knife he makes plenty of, and it's not made from special stuff, most knifemakers won't care if you back out of an order, cause it will sell anyway. Back to Jens, I was so impressed with him on my damasheep I ordered another knife from him at the same time. It did help that I was looking for something along those lines anyway, but the give and take told me that he was allright, the communications with other knife collectors who had already bought his stuff told me that the quality was much better than the price.

With well known knifemakers it's easier to make a correct choice, but still no guarantee's. Here too always go with the reasonable nice guy, why waste your time with a person who's a snob or mean or because he's a name thinks that he's better than you. What, you don't have enough aggravation already in your life that you would seek out more. There are plenty of high quality and high class makers that you don't need to give yourself a hard time. But also remember if these guys are this good they will have plenty of orders already and you may have a long wait. Good things come to those who wait! It's also the reason knife dealers do so well instant gratification!

The other thing from the resell point of view is get all the bells and whistles. Just like a used car is worth more w/ air conditioning and power steering and ABS, so too a knife is worth more if made with ivory over micarta or damascus over ats34.

Ok, so what I'm saying is research, use the internet, buy books, read magazines, ask friends who also collect, go to a show and handle it direct (pictures are flat knives aren't), any source of info that can help you make an informed decision. But here's the catch, just like the stock market, your results may vary. There are no guarantees that the knives will go up in value.

Thanks for your input jerry and Alex, will take them to heart. Anyone else got anything to add?


Peace

Paul

Hi Jerry,

I have to disagree with your number one rule. Do not buy knives to make a profit. The number one rule of custom knife buying, is to buy what you like. A caveat to that would be to do your homework and get the best value you can for the money.

This "not being able to make money" with custom knives was broached on another forum. On that particular thread, several collectors complained they "lost their ass" every time they sold a custom knife. This happened because they did not do their homework. On that same thread I listed 10-12 makes names who's knives you can make money on "TODAY".

I realize I have a little more "resale" experience than most people on this forum. So what seems easy to me may be difficult to many. There was a time when I was just a collector. I too lost money on most of the knives I resold. After years of doing my homework I found indicators that time and time again proved right as to those makers who would be successful. Consequently, if you bought these makers knives, you could expect to at least break even and in many cases make a little money.

Can you make money buying and selling custom knives, even on a small scale, the answer is yes. Is it easy, the answer is no. It is like anything, if your lazy, not willing to put in the time to get the information to make an informed decision, and can't afford to sit on a knife for a little while if you can't get your price. Then do not attempt to enter into this.

There is a reason there are only about 8 custom knife dealers in the US. I am referring to those makers who only sell custom knives. If they sell factory and custom, they are simply "knife dealers".

I agree with Jerry about buying knives solely to make money. You are much better off investing in the stock market. My point is, buy what you like. But if given the choice between two or more knives, buy the one that has the best potential to hold it's value.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

Les,

Nice to see you here. My rule number one is "Buy What You Like", so we are on the same wavelength there, perhaps my writing style wasn't clear enough, I tend to write like I talk. I have always been an advocate of this. But I look at this from the collectors point of view not the dealers. I haven't the time to be a knife dealer, between my day job (I'm an engineer) and my hobby (pit crew of a Top Fuel Dragster) I barely have time to be here.

As you say "homework" the research and general knife information that you personally have is what will let you make a "profitable" purchase. Getting to that level of expertise is time intensive.

So when's the book coming out? Hmmmm....

Some good points in this thread.

I have never sold anything but some production knives, mostly because I need the space and I just don't want them anymore. I am convinced that if I tried to sell my custom knives I would lose money. Mostly because I insist on using them the day they arrive and sometimes I even sharpen them *gasp*. Not that I have many, especially compared to present company!

For most of us, buying custom knives is something we are compelled to do, not something we hope to make money out of. But if I ever have to sell a custom knife, I know where to go for some advice

Roger

Les ...

It's an honor to see you here! Thanks for coming over ...

May I inject something?

Men ...
This is the same man that also owns a 600 page website dedicated to the knives he represents as one of the world's top custom knife purveyors. Atlanta Virtual hosts both sites operated and managed by Les.

I've been after Les to come to the CKD for a long time now, since the start in June 2000. As you all know, Les is a well known, well versed, articulate and very successful purveyor within our field.

I've seen Les write in this field on various other web channels. I listen to what he says.

I'm not a hobby collector as many people may be. I do collect all my knives as a "keep till death" type of hobby I suppose ... never buying with intent to sell a one. But, I keep them as a subsidiary aesthetic collection similar to the way I would "Jewels", "Guns" and other fine art objects.

So, when I'm looking to buy one, I'm looking at them like I would when I'm buying a painting. Assuredly, it has to please my eye to make the grade of my collection, but I'm looking for long-term capital value in it as a collection item.

Having said this ... Access to the advice of a professional art purveyor, such as Les, here at the CKD, would be well received information for anyone like me. I've seen Les's sales, so I know he's a broker that can back it up.

Les ... you accept bribes?

How's this?

The Les Robertson Forum

Anything you want ... name it! Just drop those amateurs and join us! The CKD is the future ... he he :


Tell him guys and girls ... this is where he needs to be! CKD


Alex

No, Alex, that is too cheesy of a title. how about the "Les Robertson Benchmade Emporium" :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Not if that isn't some serious butt kissing, I don't know what is!

Better do as they say, Les, I can see that look in Alex's eye !

Peace

Paul

...

There's some self interest here, too ...

Les sells a ton of custom knives. I need someone here that understands my pain. : he he

Those guys on the other boards don't understand what they've got in Les Robertson ... look how they act ...

Les ... don't listen to these men. I'm not kissing up. I'm talking "pure custom knives", "24/7", "the future of the custom knife internet" and where you need to be! Right here ... CKD!

Men, what I said about Les is true. I know! We host his operations. Les is what I see when I visualize "top of the food chain" in the custom knife purveyor business.

The CKD will be the leader when it's resources are the best in the business. Les is one of the best. He's controversial, he's on top of the latest trends and I want him with us ... today! Get him for me ...

Paul, you want to become a leader in the dealer's ring one day ... right? You want to learn how to operate as smoothly and profitably as possible ... correct? Listen to Les. Copy what he does, avoid what he tells you to avoid ... and you're there. It's that simple! He's already where you want to be ...

Alex

Alex, If he's willing snatch him up. I don't claim to "know" Les, but I have met and spoken with him on numerous occasions. I sit with Darrel Ralph at the New York Custom Show in November and Les's table is behind Darrel's and one over. Les is a distinct personality and a lot of people can't handle that (their loss), but he knows his stuff and that is without doubt!

Hi Jerry,

Distinct personality! I have never heard it put that way before. But I like that!

The thing I think is most humorus is people should have known me 10 years ago when I was an Infantry officer. At an interview with a LTC, my former Company Commander (who was taking over as teh Battalion S-3) listed one of my qualifications as being an A**Hole. My concern was always for my soldiers. As many of you may have guessed I was not very "political". I earned every promotion and award I received.

However, I was in a word, "brutal". I accepted no excuses, and would verbally rape people on a daily basis,
to include superior officers. I took my job very seriously as mistakes by me could cause soldiers in my command to die. Not get hurt, but to get dead.

Believe it or not I have mellowed. However, I still have no tolerance for those who offer excuses instead of results. I know I have offended makers with my very straight forward approach. I will admit that I probably could have used some better people skills. I have always been of the mind that custom knife makers who really want to improve seek out constructive critisism insead of hollow praise. The longer the maker keeps making the same mistake the longer it will help them achieve the level of quality they desire. Worse, if the maker keeps making the same mistake, it will become common knowledge and seasoned collectors will start to pass on this makers work.

I will also tell you that a custom knife maker has never written me a check or given me money for a knife. Consequently, my focus is on the well being of my clients. My goal is to get them the very best knife I can for the money. Which is why I offer a trade in policy that is not matched in the custom knife industry.

I believe in the makers I work with. Both their commitment to excellence and their craftsmanship.

Those of you who know me, know I love custom knives. There is nothing more important to me than to keep those who are into custom knives, in the hobby and to bring as many new collectors into the hobby.

To any of you who are involved in this hobby, this is important to you as well. As you change your collecting habits you will need new collectors into the hobby who would be interested in buying your knives. This allows the new collectors to pick up a few bargains and it allows the seasoned collector to sell or trade some of their older knives off to purchase new knives.

Buy what you like and do your homework.

Les,

The Question on the table is:

Will you come to CKD and Moderate your own Forum???

Enquirering minds want to know!!

Peace

Paul