the bounds of ignorance...

[Quenchcrack]

My thanks to you all for a gracious welcome. Fitzo, you were not the person I started my rant about. I think all of us can learn from your posts, too. Regarding the ABS qualifications, well, there you are! Like I said, I have no business telling anyone here how to make a knife. I have 3 bookcases full of books at work but many of them are older than I am! They were gifts from a man I worked for on the East Coast who was quite a scholar. He served in the 101st Airborn and had a Masters Degree in Physics and an MBA but read a lot of metallurgy and welding books. There are not a lot of useful books on metallurgy that are written for the non-metallurgist. That is probably why there are so many folks posting tutorials on metallurgy on the web. If you are SERIOUS about learning the metallurgy of heat treating, the best book I have found on THEORY is "Steel and Its Heat Treatment" by George Krauss from ASM. There is another one whose name and author I have forgotten but is a very practical book (for a metallurgist). I will post the name tomorrow from work.

[fitzo]

I moved as fast as I can and then came back disappointed that of the fifteen "steel" books on my shelf, that isn't one of them. Ah, well, off to amazon/used soon!

I think I read the thread you were commenting on originally, Bob, and understood that part completely. I had recently read one sorta left me shaking my head, too. I am sorry if I left the impression I thought you were speaking of me. It was a different mouth, different foot I was using!

It seems like the imp was alive in me when I posted my reply this morning when I wanted to know who you were. At 53 I'm still trying to learrn to behave like a real grownup. Something tells me I'll never get there.

My sadness at myself came from the fact I seem to have gotten some things wrong about ABS test blades. Terry is a very kindhearted man, though, and didn't beat me up in my ignorance. I appreciate having the correct information about things.

You can betcher butt, though, Bob, that there are a bunch around here who will dote on your comments and teaching. Thank you! We look forward to learning.

[AwP]

My sadness at myself came from the fact I seem to have gotten some things wrong about ABS test blades. Terry is a very kindhearted man, though, and didn't beat me up in my ignorance. I appreciate having the correct information about things.

Yup, I was wrong on some of the stuff I thought I knew about them too. We both learned something today, always a good thing.

[AwP]

On a side note, nice to see you here Quenchcrack, you might remember me from the Anvilfire guru board. I'm used to seeing you post good info there, I'm sure alot of people will benifit from having you here.

[Alan L]

Howdy, Bob/QC!

I recognized you from the smithing boards too. What do you think of "Tool Steel Simplified" by Palmer and Luerssen, published by Carpenter Steel? I have the third edition, 1968 printing, and I think it's one of the best there is at BASIC explanation of what it is we try to do to steel. Until I looked at it just now I had not realized it was first printed in 1938, but I calls 'em like I see's 'em.

[Terry Primos]

Fitzo and I spend so much time clarifying ourselves and worrying about offending someone, I think we need to each add a line to our signatures like this:

Fitzo's:
mike fitzgerald: I apologize

Mine:

I'm sorry



#########

I just bookmarked the link to Bob Nichols' article as well. Thanks for the link.

[AUBE]

has the ABS or any other organization given much thought to doing more in depth testing? not to put down the current testing, but i was thinking something more scientific...using machines designed for testing edge retention, rockwell testing, machines to monitor the depth of cut vs force exerted, etc. seems to me this would give more accurate results and less dependent on human factors.

is this needed to insure the making of a good blade? nope...but to me it would be neat to see accurate numeric results. might also help to dispel myths

-Jason Aube

welcome to the forum quenchcrack

[fitzo]

Originally Posted by Terry Primos

Fitzo and I spend so much time clarifying ourselves and worrying about offending someone, I think we need to each add a line to our signatures like this:

Fitzo's:
mike fitzgerald: I apologize

Certainly seems like that would be appropriate, doesn't it, Terry? But, I'll bet you feel like me that it's better to apologize when it may not be totally necessary than miss one when it is.

Thanks for the kindness. I mean that.

[Quenchcrack]

The one I tried to think of last night was "Principles of the Heat Treatment of Plain Carbon and Low Alloy Steels" By Charlie R. Brooks, ASM press. Also, a good primer on heat treating is an old one: "Principles of Heat Treatment" by Grossman and Bain. These two authors are legends among metallurgists, Bain having the structure Bainite named after him. Grossman and Bains book is long out of print; the last printing was in 1972 so look for a used copy. Krauss's book was based on this book. Bethlehem published a book called "The Tool Steel Troubleshooter" that is an excellent resource when things don't go right with tool steels. Again, out of print. Timkin has a free book on their website that has a lot of data in it but not much text. It is in pdf format. I will post more as I think of them.

[luc]

Thank you
I have been having a tuff time finding any decent books,so I really appreciate the info.
Lucas

[Quenchcrack]

AwP, yes I remember the nickname. Good to hear from you again.

Alan, I do not have the book on tool steels you mentioned. I know that George Krauss has written a new book on Tool Steels and I would expect it to be top notch. George was a Professor Emeritus at my Alma Mater (Colorado School of Mines) and is a past President of the American Society for Metals and Materials. A great guy, too. They called him Mr. Martensite!

[Quenchcrack]

AUBE, there is a branch of science/engineering called tribology and it deals with wear and wear control. The "Tribologists" have developed standardized tests for abrasion resistance of metals under controlled conditions. It might be an interesting test for a blade to run it on an abrasion system and measure the weight loss after a specified time. Of course, the blade might not be saleable after the test. However, since abrasion resistance is more than just hardness, semi-finished blades of various material and heat treatments could answer scientifically some questions about the best blade/heat treat combinations.

[Gary Hamilton]

The posts seem to pile up quickly on this thread.
I went to half.com in search of books on the cheap. Strange thing is good books are never cheap. I only found Steels: Heat Treatment and Processing Principles by George Krauss, it was $109 so I will have to put it on the wish list.
http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cg...1856&meta_id=1

I printed the link, I am only halfway through it but it is a good read. Thanks for posting the link and Mr. Nichols thanks for writing

[Quenchcrack]

I am pleased to be of some use here but you are all making me feel old! Mr. Nichols is my father's name, please call me Bob or Quenchcrack or QC.....or..............

[fitzo]

I be almost 53, Bob. The other day, when I wanted to know who you were, I must say it was mostly because calling you "crack" conjured too many images I didn't want to see!
There are lots of us over-the-hill gang here! We sorta have a loose, undefined "old farts" club. Periodically you'll see a post using "OFx". Now you'll know what that means.

I look at gray hair as a badge of honor. I made it this far and that's pretty surprising!

Hope you're having a good one!