MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > Heat Treating and Metallurgy

Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-07-2004, 04:15 PM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 63
cement and a forge

Ok, i have no money. I need a forge. I have a propane torch. Will regular cement work as a insulator for a small forge? It is 2x3x12 inches. The cement is surrounding a square plate of metal, so it doesn't come in direct contact with the flame. It is also almost completely surrounded by metal, so chipping isn't that much of a concern (unless it destroys the cement). Any input is welcome, as i don't have any experience in this.

Thanks,
KJ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-07-2004, 05:33 PM
Ed Caffrey's Avatar
Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Posts: 4,393
Send a message via AIM to Ed Caffrey Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Caffrey
Don't do it...

I'm gona be brutal on this one for safety sake...... NO! NO! NO! Mixing regualr cement requires aggregate (rocks), which have tiny air pockets within them. Even if the cement would hold up, there is a very real danger of super heating the air pockets within the aggregate and blowing the concrete/aggregate apart. I have seen this happen a couple of times, one of those instances was like a rifle shot, right through the side the building. Had a person been in line with that, they would be dead.

Concrete also take 28 days to fully cure, but that's not to say that there still won't be moisture trapped in the aggregate, which can create super heated steam and cause even more deadly effects.

I would rather see you build a forge out of fire brick, or Ka-wool. Fire bricks are about $1.50 each in my part of the world, and ka-wool (cermaic wool fiber) is about $6.00 per square foot. Trying to get by on the cheap can often times get you seriously hurt unless you know exactly what your doing.


__________________
WWW.CAFFREYKNIVES.NET

Caffreyknives@gmail.com

"Every CHOICE has a CONSEQUENCE, and all your CONSEQUENCES are a result of your CHOICES."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-07-2004, 05:56 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 890
Hi KJ,

I've got a scrap piece of 6# density Ceramic Fiber blanket that I won't sell due to the lower density value...you pay shipping and I'll send you enough to line your forge for free. Shoot me an email offline and we can make arrangements. I don't want to see you get hurt either...

-Darren


__________________
Gas Forges, Refractory, & Knifemaking Supplies
Refractory.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com

Visit the Forge Gallery - forge building resource pages
ForgeGallery.EllisCustomKnifeworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-08-2004, 12:08 AM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
I urge you to find a copy of Wayne Goddard's "$50 Knife Shop". A lot can be done with few $$ and Wayne does a fantastic job of describing the work.

If memory serves, there's a picture of a one-brick forge on Darren Ellis' site. (See his post.) I built one - per the book above - and used a propane torch. To my eternal shock, it works pretty good.


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-08-2004, 06:02 AM
Phantom23 Phantom23 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Burpengary, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 149
I'm sure Jason Cutter uses a plumbers propane torch because I copied off of him. Seems to work for the heat side of things,

Have a look on the Darren Ellis Forge Gallery Pages (link above) - Jason's forge is pretty simple but from what he has said to me EFFECTIVE

Phantom23
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-08-2004, 09:52 AM
Don Halter's Avatar
Don Halter Don Halter is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 1,261
I can remember camping once and finding a concrete slab where a shed or something used to be. We put our campfire on it. About halfway through cooking dinner, it detonated. We were showered with hunks of hot concrete, half-baked potatoes and semi raw chicken raining down from 20+ feet in the air!

You can mix poor-man's refractory from perlite, cat-litter clay and pure cement, but it's not the most efficient lining and it crumbles over time. Don't use standard concrete or you might be wearing your forge after a few minutes of heating!


__________________
Don "Krag" Halter

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-08-2004, 11:33 AM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 63
Thanks for the replies. You guys responded like 5 mins before i was planning to mix the cement. Thanks alot, and i'll definitly not us cement!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-08-2004, 03:45 PM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
"Halter's Detonating Chicken"

Now there's a recipe you just don't see every day.


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-13-2004, 12:08 PM
Don Halter's Avatar
Don Halter Don Halter is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 1,261
Yeah...that was one camping trip I'll never forget! I'm sure the raccoons loved us the next day!

If you wan't the recipe I can send it to you.


__________________
Don "Krag" Halter

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-13-2004, 01:34 PM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
I was wondering if that was the purpose of those "free range chickens" you told us to expect at the Hammer-In!


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-14-2004, 09:15 AM
Don Halter's Avatar
Don Halter Don Halter is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 1,261
Nah...that would be blackened forge-bird.


__________________
Don "Krag" Halter

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-2004, 02:50 PM
miller14 miller14 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 43
Hey,

Check out some of the Out post archives too. I know some guys buy the really cheap cat litter made from (pure) clay with no perfume in it. You can soak it in water and use the clay to insulate a forge pretty easily. It is probably more labor intensive, but if you have more time than money it is real cheap, and you can patch it repair it easily too. I plan to put a layer of the clay on my coal table forge when I get home next this spring. Just an idea, and you can't have to many of those. I think Mr. Natural himself uses a washtub forge lined with clay. Just have to keep the cats away or forge smells like ****

good luck

Rick
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
forge, knife


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved