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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2004, 11:33 AM
Rocket_Jason Rocket_Jason is offline
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O1 annealing process

Hi All-

I have been having problems with the annealing process using O1. I will discribe my process and maybe someone can tell me what I am doing wrong.

After forging to shape, I normalize 3 times. My process of normalizing involves bringing the steel up to non-magnetic and then allowing it to air cool (I do this 3 times). Then I anneal the steel by bringing it up to non-magnetic and then leaving it in the forge for an aditional 20 seconds. I then put the blade in wood ashes to cool overnight.

The problem is that after annealing, the steel is still to hard to even drill through. I have even broken a couple of blades in just droping them on the floor.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Jason
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2004, 11:46 AM
unclemike13 unclemike13 is offline
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Hi Robert,

I use O-1 quite a bit and have had no trouble annealing it. Take it up to 1450 degrees, soak it for three minutes and cool it slowly over about 8 hours. You might consider placing a hot piece of steel into the ashes before or at the same time you put the blade in - that will help hold the heat longer. Times I have taken O-1 out of the annealing process too soon, it has always been too hard to drill. In my experience, it has to drop below 500 degrees over a long time. Hope this helps.

Michael
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2004, 12:54 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Hi, Jason!

You can take what Michael said one step further by sandwiching the blade between two pieces of scrap steel, heating them all up together, and slapping them all in the ashes at once. What's happening to you, in my thought also, is that it is still cooling too fast.

I have also tried the vermiculite method in the past and not had much luck, either, so I went back to using my furnace. Michael's right, though, load that ash pile up with as much hot steel as possible.

A couple of friends simply leave the blade in the forge and turn it off. They get good annealing by having a well-insulated forge that cools slowly. You might try that, too, and see how it works.

It was nice speaking with you in Paltalk a few nights ago. Take care.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:58 PM
Rocket_Jason Rocket_Jason is offline
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Hey Fitzo - It was nice talking with you too!

uncle mike said to take it up to 1450 degrees and hold it there. How do you know when you have reached that temp? Is that the temp when O1 turns non-magnetic or do you have a thermocouple?
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2004, 12:28 AM
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Messinger Messinger is offline
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Jason,
I'm just a stock-removing newbie, but I had to aneal an O1 blade last week too. I took the blade to non-magnetic, held for about 2 minutes being careful not to get any hotter, then just shut off the gas, sealed up the forge and let it slow-cool. (My forge is just soft firebrick) I checked it about 12 hours later and it was fully anealed.

-Ben
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2004, 11:19 AM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Jason, I use a thermocouple/meter to monitor my forge temps. I run very hot, for welding, so I don't do the anneal thing in the forge.

In your case, I'd test with the magnet. Something you'd want to try and avoid is having a forge too hot if you leave the blade in there. If it's up at forging temps, I would think it'd get hot enough to cause grain growth if left too long. You want to try and have it running cooler than normal.
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2004, 11:20 AM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
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Hi Jason, I use a lot of O1 for forged blades and I just anneal using pre-heated vermiculite....just heat a couple pieces of mild steel and stick them down in the vermiculite and then when I'm done with the blade stick it down near the pre-heated pieces and let it go until the next day...always comes out soft as butter...ok, well not that soft, but good enough to drill easily.

-Darren


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  #8  
Old 06-27-2004, 09:23 AM
dennis2 dennis2 is offline
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Hello Jason
Listen carefully to what Uncle Mike said about soak time. O-1 needs to be soaked for some time before changes occur. Also, when I anneal O-1 I try to keep it UNDER the austinizing temp. This can be done in the dark with a "dying" forge. The steel will be faint red but still magnetic. Going up to critical temp allows the potential for martinsite to form.

Dennis Tingle
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2004, 10:40 AM
RJ Martin RJ Martin is offline
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Jason: Annealing 01 steel requires VERY SLOW cooling, on the order of 50F per hour.

Crucible recommends soaking 2 hours @ 1425/1450 (a shorter soak, perhaps 10-30 minutes would be fine for a knife blade), then cooling to below 1000F at 50F per hour, max. That's 9 hours just to reach 1000F. Then, you can just let it cool it slowly.

Also, since you're prepping your blade for HT, I'm thinking that 2 hours at 1100/1300, followed by an air cool, would set your blade up nicely for HT.

Not sure if it's an issue, but, if there's any scale on that blade after your anneal, it's going to be hard to drill.


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  #10  
Old 07-02-2004, 11:03 AM
Kevin R. Cashen Kevin R. Cashen is offline
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O1 is not as resistant to softening as L6 but I have found most of the same principals apply, (and in the case op spheroidizing, even more so due to the carbon level). Normalize a few times, then bring to critical and quench. Then heat to a very dull red several times, see how soft this gets things. Heres the catch, if at any time, any place, you go over approximately 1350F. you will need to start all over as the stuff will harden a bit on cooling. The other method that I would recomend as a little less attentive, is to cool your gas forge to red and then sutff the pice in the forge and plug the doors with cermamic wool. when you come back the next day things should be soft enough to work with.
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