MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-11-2014, 04:04 PM
Kevster Kevster is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
I bought some Alabama damascus. .

I'm going to wait to get my oven to H/T it, have any of ya'll worked with it? If so, would you mind sharing how you did it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-11-2014, 04:17 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
I've never used it so somebody else will have to give you the specifics. What I want to do is give you an understanding of HTing damascus so that you can proceed even if there is no one to ask.

The first thing to know is that anybody who sells damascus commercially has a spec sheet on how to heat treat their product. Its free, just ask for it.

If no sheet is available, you have to know what steels were used in making the damascus and in what proportions (roughly). If the damascus is the usual 1084, 15N20 kind of thing then the 1084 is almost sure the largest part of the mix so you HT the damascus exactly as you would plain 1084. That way, at least most of your blade will have the correct HT and the remainder should be very close - this is why we can't just put any two steels together that might be laying around. Try to mix 52100 and 1095 for example and the damascus will possibly tear itself apart during HT or else one part or the other will be far off of its proper heat treatment. The problem only gets worse when more than two steels are mixed. You can only HT one steel optimally, the others have to make do or you have to settle for some overall average that isn't optimal for any of the steels ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-11-2014, 04:37 PM
Kevster Kevster is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
I talked to Alabama and they said to treat it like 1084 but to quench in peanut oil, and temper twice at 350 for 1 hour, is this right?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-11-2014, 05:12 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
I suppose it is right if that's what they said. Hard to even guess at it without knowing what steels are in the damascus and in what proportions.

If the damascus is mostly 1084 then that would be reasonable. The requirement for peanut oil I would ignore in favor of Parks 50 which I think you already have BUT that might not be a good idea if one of the other steels in the damascus has a problem with a fast quench oil.

Anyway, I'm guess you don't have peanut oil and since it is expensive you might just take a scrap of the damascus after you have cut out your blade and test it with whatever oil you do have. Testing like this is always a good idea when you get a new steel of any kind because its the little things that will screw you up ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-11-2014, 07:34 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
I would think it would be a bit chippy at a 350 draw. But like Ray said, we don't know what the ingredients are. I'd do it like they say and test the edge using a brass rod, if it chips up the tempering heat and repeat. (be sure to check with a file after quenching to make sure it hardened).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-11-2014, 07:47 PM
damon damon is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 409
I had a pamphlet around somewhere that had the steels... (trying to remember)

52100, 5160, 203E, 15N20.


I I do not yet have all the fancy kilns and ovens, but after hardening, (torch evenly to nonmagnetic and oil quench), and usually temper around 400 for an hour.

Last edited by damon; 07-11-2014 at 07:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2014, 07:58 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
According to their HT instructions on their website they suggest 350 F temper but point out that some users don't bother to temper at all. To me, that would seem to be just another way of saying there's an awful lot of relatively soft (unhardenable or low hardening) metal in that mix even though three out of four of those steels are excellent blade steels. The mix seems a bit unconventional but if you test the blade after you make the knife then that will tell the tale good or bad. The problem with damascus knives is no one ever wants to really test one ....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2014, 08:09 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
According to their HT instructions on their website they suggest 350 F temper but point out that some users don't bother to temper at all. To me, that would seem to be just another way of saying there's an awful lot of relatively soft (unhardenable or low hardening) metal in that mix even though three out of four of those steels are excellent blade steels. The mix seems a bit unconventional but if you test the blade after you make the knife then that will tell the tale good or bad. The problem with damascus knives is no one ever wants to really test one ....
Ray, you have that right about testing. I got embarrassed pretty bad one time because I didn't thoroughly test a Damascus blade. The customer stabbed it into a rock hard piece of desert wood and broke the tip. If I would have done at least a drop test I would have found that it was too hard and needed a little more temper. Thanks to that experience now I keep a piece of oak and give the tip a work over in that stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2014, 09:12 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
I have used Alabama Damascus before. I did exactly what you would do for 1084 per the directions given by Lacy Smith the man who makes the damascus. I have made three knives from it and had no problems. I drop test it and had no problem at all. No I have never done the level of testing that many of you do but I have had great results with the knives so far. I am a newbee and have given two of the knives to my son and wife. One was made for a young man who practices the art of Phiillipino knive fighting. He loved it and has had no problems. The edge of the knives were all exceptional and they have held their edges wonderfully. I know this is not scientific testing but the knives have been used and no problems so far.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2014, 11:11 PM
racinca's Avatar
racinca racinca is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Carriere, MS
Posts: 99
I have made several knives from Alabama Damascus. I quench at 1525 and then temper at 400.


__________________
www.tonymillerknives.com
Instagram: @tonymillerknives
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-12-2014, 07:15 AM
argel55 argel55 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chandler, Oklahoma
Posts: 238
I used 1500 degrees for the quench then tempered at the 350.
One of my friends hog hunted in Argentina with a bowe that worked very well for him. The knife RC 58.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2014, 11:00 AM
Dwane Oliver's Avatar
Dwane Oliver Dwane Oliver is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Loon Lake Wa
Posts: 374
I've used alot of it and I quench at 1550 and temper at 400 , rod test and it always comes out great.
One tip : dont buff it , just sand. Buffing seems to muddy the patterns, IDK thats just my experience.


Dwane


__________________
We will never forget 9-11-01 " Freedom Isn't Free"
www.oliverknives.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2014, 11:57 AM
Kevster Kevster is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano Texas
Posts: 498
Thanks for the help guys, I'll wait for my oven to get here and give it a try.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2014, 01:51 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 118
You are very correct about not buffing the steel. You can sand and wet sand it but the buffing does mess up the pattern.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2014, 02:00 PM
damon damon is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 409
these were etched a bit deeper, then buffed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/oiseau...n/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/oiseau...n/photostream/

I hand sanded a bit with 1500, then lightly on the buffer. not trying to move metal, just make it shine a bit more.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1084, 1095, 5160, 52100, 550, art, blade, brass, damascus, damascus blade, edge, file, heat, heat treat, heat treatment, how to, knife, knives, make, making, problem, rod, sand, steel, temper


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This one is heading to Alabama.... ncrobb The North Carolina Custom Knifemakers Guild Forum 3 09-26-2013 06:31 AM
A visit to Alabama Damascus Robert Dark The Damascus Forum 3 11-24-2011 04:09 AM
Alabama damascus boat/rope knife nifeman The Display Case 6 06-25-2004 07:37 AM
Who is Alabama Damascus Steel? Frank Niro Ed Caffrey's Workshop 19 01-09-2004 07:54 AM
Alabama Bound StanWilson Ed Caffrey's Workshop 2 12-28-2000 12:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved