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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 06-30-2004, 08:07 AM
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stacking micarta scales

Anybody ever thinned down micarta scales of differing colors and stacked them to use as handle material. In my brain it seems like it could look ok. The scale on the tang would outline the outer scale. Any issues with adherence to each other?? I've done searches but didn't see anything.
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Old 06-30-2004, 09:23 AM
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Most suppliers sell ready-made stacked or layered micarta. Might want to see what's already available before you go to the trouble.


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Old 06-30-2004, 11:38 AM
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Thx Don, I'm obviously looking in the wrong places.
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Old 06-30-2004, 03:04 PM
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i just typed in a big message and hit submit and my net provider disconnected me right at that exact second and i lost the ifno..grrrrr

anyways.. www.kovalknives.com has a few types www.fibermascus.com has some neat stuff, check it out

you can make your own, i wouldnt bother sanding down exsisting sheets though...just pour your own. i will give u an outline of how to go about doing this if you would like (i just typed it out and dont have time to retype it right now)

-Jason Aube
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Old 06-30-2004, 04:39 PM
VSMBlades VSMBlades is offline
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Jason
I would be interested in how to pour my own Micarta blocks, that would be really cool. I have tried to laminate my own handle material out of countertop material sheets but havent had much success, I believe my glue is at fault, I probably need to switch to a slow cure epoxy.

Joe


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Old 06-30-2004, 07:37 PM
Jason Cutter Jason Cutter is offline
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Stacking different materials is something I have done a bit of. Its not generally my personal taste to use all sorts of different colours, but I do stack layers of the same material to get the thickness that I want. I find it works best with G10 because G10 uses an epoxy base, but Micarta and Dymondwood glues together just as well, and often without any hint of a joint line. Rough the surface very lightly only and use a good epoxy like 2-tonne. I have had also had good success using a very thin superglue. I have never had those mated slabs come apart, even with hard use, but psychologically the epoxy seems stronger (maybe). Your mated slabs will probably have pins or rivets running through them anyway, which will reinforce the layers. As always, you should never rely purely on any adhesive material to hold your handle together. Jason.


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Old 06-30-2004, 09:15 PM
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ok here goes,

adhesives...there are 3 main adhesives used in knife making.
cyanoacrylate(superglue), phenolic resin, epoxides. cyanoacrylate is used mainly for securing parts together and not "casting" parts. its an air cured adhesive and has the strongest holding power out of the three, the downside is even though its a strong bond, its also a brittle bond compared to the other 2 and will break easier with shock and handle material shrinkage..thats why a good epoxy usually holds up better.
without going into too much boring detail phenolic and epoxides are pretty much the same...but epoxides tend to be stronger, and more enviromentally stable(dont absord moisture as much, shrink, warp etc) imo epoxides are well worth the additional cost over phenolics. so im going to refer to everything being done with epoxy.

you can make a micartalike material(micarta is a registered trade name) with just epoxy..mat material(like chopped fiber), paper, linen, canvas, etc etc soaked with epoxy. the stronger the material, usually the stronger the composite. i prefer canvas most the time. so pick what color you want your layers to be, find a material those colors (i go to the hardware store and buy untreated canvas dropcloths used for painting and dye them myself) decide how thick you want your final product to be...measure how thick your fabric is....calculate how many layers of fabric you need to equal the finished thickness.(if your material is .010" and you want your final product to be .10" thick..you will need 10 layers) buy an epoxide with a fairly slow curing time (no 5min stuff) a gallon averages like $40ish usually.

once you have your material all picked out and cut to size, mix your epoxy. (keep in mind you only have a certain amount of time to work before the epoxy starts curing. if your not done by the time it starts to cure youre in trouble) wearing gloves i dip my material in the epoxy..making sure its throughly wetted. lay the material down flat...repeat with a new piece of material. when you lay the new piece of material down on another piece start with one corner and slowly lower the piece from one side to another...this helps prevent large air pockets from being caught inbetween the layers. i also use a spatula type spreader and rub across the surface trying to force any air out...keep repeating this process untill you have all your layers done.

you can eyeball it as you go along or u can make a jig to help you with having nice flat surfaces and even thickness...i use a jig. my jig is made out of 3/4 sealed plywood with 1" of maple reinforcement on the back(u dont have to go this thick,,,i just have a bunch of maple laying around) mine is about 18"x18"x2"thick. you need 2 of these. in the 4 corners i have drilled straight through both layers and use metal rod as guides to keep the 2 pieces from slipping all over. if i want my composite to be 3/8" thick i use spacer between the 2 layers of wood that is just a tad over 3/8" thick, around the edges. once the composite is laid in the jig i clamp everything down with C clamps. the spacers insure i dont clamp too far and make the material too thin. it also insures the material stays paralell. to keep the plywood from sticking to the composite you can use release wax for moldmaking...or do what i do and cover the wood with saranwrap that way the epoxy never comes in contact with the wood.

now simply allow it to cure in a WELL ventilated area. you must have enough ventilation because the fumes can be toxic and can also cause flashfires. keep away from anything else that may be flammable(ive never had a flashfire but it pays to be carefull) once its cured unclamp everything and cut it into whatever sizes you want. you may find an occasional air pocket..they are usually small and can be filled in with superglue.

most expoxides and phenolics do not have UV stabilizers...which means uv rays will cause them to darken/yellow with age. you can get adhesives with UV additives to prevent this(its a big concern with light materials but not much of a concern with dark materials) keep in mind whatever color material u choose will end up darker once its impregnated with epoxy.

epoxides hold 2 different ways..a mechanical bond(like where u glue 2 pieces of wood together) and a cross linked bond(where the actual grain of the glue is linked together...almost like a chain) cross linking happens whenever an epoxide cures. of these 2 the crosslinked bond is much stronger. for this reason laying all the layers out at once will be far stronger than glueing layers of premade sheets together. the material will be crosslinked throughout instead of just a mechanical bond. if you decide to glue 2 pieces of premade material together its a good idea to make sure they are both cast out of the same material...if you have a composite cast out of phenolic and 1 out of epoxy and glue them together you might have problems because the 2 materials absorb moisture differently and will be more prone to pull apart than 2 of the same material glued together. this is a small concern...but every little bit you can do to make your knife better is a good thing. you can also buy pigment for the epoxy to color it. thickeners, silicates, cross link enhancers etc are available too.

if you decide to not use any material substrate and just use pure poured epoxy(which is the most uniform but weakest way to go) all you have to do is dye the epoxy..pour a layer(need a jig with sides so it doesnt all run off) you can alternate bewteen layers of different colors to get a layered effect.

ok i think ive rambled on enough....its a pretty jumbled mess and not sure if anyone will be able to understand what im talking about lol. if you have any questions lemme know.
i will have access to a good digital cam in a few weeks and if people are interested i will take pics of the process and make a quick tutorial. hope this helps a little

-Jason Aube
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:20 AM
VSMBlades VSMBlades is offline
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Thanks for all the info. I will start building my jig this weekend.

Joe


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  #9  
Old 07-01-2004, 07:46 AM
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Awesome, thanks tons. I've got some ideas, will post if they turn out.
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