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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

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  #16  
Old 09-30-2008, 11:04 PM
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chiger chiger is offline
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Jerry,

The video is cool as heck, if not just a little insane. Boiling Iron in a 55 gallon drum...are you kidding. That's ingenuity at it's height.

I do have one suggestion. A more efficient ignition source would probably help stabilize the smelting process some and give you even more consistent results. It looked like there might have been some energy used up just getting going.

Ok, that's out of the way. I can think of about a hundred examinations of that stuff I'd like to do...if someone else was paying of course. ;~0

I'd like to find the true specific gravity of the cubes. Even if Dr. Scott is right about what they might be...man you were knockin' around electrons at a frantic rate. I kind of have a feelin' they're something unexpected.

Although I have a zillion questions, I do have two you can probably answer for me pretty easily.

First, have you put in an oven or heat source, that doesn't require high explosives that is, and just heated it to destruction? What did you observe?

Second, how conductive is it? I mean has any of those guys done a room temp conductivity test. Or have you stuck an ohm meter to it? You mentioned the possibility of super conductor applications, but most of that stuff has to be super cooled to be the least conductive, right?

Oh, and your right if you're thinking what I think you're thinking and that's kind of what I was thinking when I was thinking out loud about the cubes. ;~)

You may be making little Borg cubes and the really cool alloy with it's sand worms may be incomplete or unfulfilled cubes. Or, maybe the other way around!

chiger,
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2008, 10:41 AM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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Hi Chiger,
The little puffing is not the thermite trying to ignite. I use a kids fire work called a "strobe light". I find the pulsing action of the little fire work, ignites the thermite better than magnesium ribbon or a sparkler. The actual charge does not ignite until you see the yellow flame through the top vent. I pack my charges so they burn slow and hot.

The early sem reports are that the filaments are an unidentified heavy metal. Since I used only 1 heavy metal, and the sem can not identify it, it should be a rhenium intermetallic. A note here; There were trace metals in the meteorites I used as a Ferro nickel source, but most should have burned up and they only were ppm. The meteorites themselves were only 4 - 6% of the total anyway.

You bring up another very thoughtful observation;
When I worked for the Navy, I remember that mag fields were used to contain the plasma plume on solid rocket motors. Thermite is very very close to an upside down solid rocket motor. I've always wondered what type of em field a big run throws off. also if you could manipulate the liquid metal and/or flame from the outside. The temp at the flame is estimated at close to 8000 F in a big run with the lid on. That's lower fusion temp. That's why I call the furnace "star chamber"

Your statement about the electrons having a part in the formation of the cubes is very intriguing. I will find out when I get a chance to conventionally melt some more, and see if they form.

Thanks for the interest and stimulating conversation. Jerry

EDIT: I have 1 little piece left. I don't have the heart to burn it up.
I promised Tai a chunk, so we can get some neotribal feedback on how it handles in the forge. Which reminds me, I need to find the right forging temp first.


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Last edited by Jerry Bennett; 10-01-2008 at 11:03 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2008, 12:40 PM
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Jerry,

Ok, I understand the appearance when it started out now. I was going to suggest a little solid rocket starter. But it's about the same thing. Just remote started.

You bring up something I'd like to know. I wonder if the filaments would aline them selfs along lines of force if you use a powerful electric field, like a big old 100 HP DC electric motor case around the reactor crucible.

Of course you'd need to protect it with a good blanket, but something you could conceivably do at home and it would be interesting to see what would happen. Maybe that's something for that R&D position when you get it. ;~)

Anyway, can't wait to see what Tia does with it. Should be cool.

chiger,
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:02 PM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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I've played around with mag fields and t-mite a little in the past. I'll post a page out of my note book. I was fooling around with the delta iron, and trying to see what a fairly strong, static field would do do it. This was a few years ago when my system was open.

i doubt the filaments will respond to a mag field though. The plasma sure should, in some way. Re has an "anti magnetic" character. BTW, rhenium is the only metal that is malleable from absolute zero, all the way to it's melting point. So this steel would have excellent creep resistance in a very wide temperature range.

The filaments would orient them selves during forging anyway. Sort of a high tech wrought iron, I would imagine.

About the superconductor, when you add nitrogen, (nitriding for example), you can form a hexagonal close packed allotrope. Thus a possible ferro superconductor. We will see about that though.


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  #20  
Old 10-02-2008, 07:03 PM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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I forgot to post the results of one of the mag experiments. This is a small ingot, that formed in the doughnut magnets field. it made,... well, a doughnut. It was also very coarse and "hairy". Maybe the delta ferrite trying to escape through the lines of the mag field, just before it froze.


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  #21  
Old 10-03-2008, 01:03 AM
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Now that's what I call a response. Iron doughnuts. Cool. And glad to know I'm not the only one with notebooks full of crazy looking drawings. ;~)

You're right, it would probably take a heck of a field to effect the electron orbits of a metal that stable and dense. Then it would mess with everything else so much that the alloy, if you even got one would be scrap.

Although...wonder what an AC field would do to your iron experiment? A orbiting field around it..?

But what I was thinking about with aligning the filaments during smelting was for specialized structural applications that require casting. You know, like high tech auto or aerospace engine components. But if it happen that readily during forging it would probably happen if it were cast. If it can even be cast?

What made you think of alloying rh in iron without carbon. What characteristics of rhenium and niobium got you going on the ideal. I know you said it was unexpected, but I take it you were trying to produce non stainless super alloy of some sort.

Just wondering.

chiger,
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2008, 04:34 AM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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Although...wonder what an AC field would do to your iron experiment? A orbiting field around it..?
Youre gonna think this is weird, but you would get an anti gravity generator. No, really. It's a phenomena called, are you ready..... magnetohydrodynamics. Google it. Trust me. It's also how they produce a "caterpillar" drive on silent subs. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/0...aucer-uav.html

I was studying platinum group metals in iron alloys, and was quite impressed on the creep resistance and toughness it imparts. My first choice was rhodium. Didn't feel like seeling my car to afford some, so i settled on rhenium. Good thing, as I think it has way more promise.
I added the niobium as a grain refiner. I had a lot of success with it in the recent past. great alloy. I was going to leave out the carbon to make pounding out the ingot easier. Just carburize the stock later.
I just wanted to be the first kid on the block with a rhenium, niobium, nickel alloy knife.


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  #23  
Old 10-03-2008, 11:21 AM
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Jerry, it's columbium , columbium , Cb !
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2008, 12:38 PM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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Yeah, you're right, but these youngins' probably never heard of columbium. The spell check doesn't even recognize it, but it does niobium. That's anti-American.


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  #25  
Old 10-03-2008, 01:02 PM
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Nope, not weird Jerry. I've heard and seen the phenomenon. Heck, I've seen a frog float. ;~0

Just didn't dawn on me that a field of lower intensity would effect your process that much more dramatically. But, it makes sense now that you say it. Elements tend to be self attractive/segregating in a neutral or weightless environment. Self segregation would not be good if you're going for homologous product. Oh well! That kicks that can off the side of the road. ;~)

"I just wanted to be the first kid on the block with a rhenium, niobium, nickel alloy knife."

Oh, so you were showing off! I see now...that's how you are. Seriously, that's how some of the greatest advances in history have been made. Passion leads to experimentation and it's inevitable mistakes. Some of those have turned out to be great advances. I hope this works out that way.

I'd love to be able to say, "Hey, I was pickin' that guy's brain on TKN when he was still blowin' stuff up in the back yard."

Oh, and the selling the car part. We had a sample of that stuff in the lab of one of my college chem courses. It was so small it was hard to see and I think the professor said it was like 6 grand. I understand completely. I was amazed to hear production cost made it and some others way more expensive than any other even refined precious metal or gem stones.

Loved those classes. Should have gone that way instead of computers. Maybe I could understand at least half of what guys like you and mete are saying! ;~)

chiger,
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  #26  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:13 PM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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Oh, so you were showing off! I see now...that's how you are. Seriously, that's how some of the greatest advances in history have been made. Passion leads to experimentation and it's inevitable mistakes. Some of those have turned out to be great advances. I hope this works out that way.
Not so much showing off, as I always have to do things different. There are many flops for every success.
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I'd love to be able to say, "Hey, I was pickin' that guy's brain on TKN when he was still blowin' stuff up in the back yard."
Actually you CAN say that. You gave me some cool things to think about. Edison was no genius, he said so himself. He surrounded himself with knowledgeable people, and just used a little imagination and a lot of determination. That's all. I kind of have the same approach.

Columbium and niobium are the same element. It was discovered by Americans, but the Europeans "discovered" it a little later and called it niobium. The latter name kind of stuck. Sounds more exotic.


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  #27  
Old 10-04-2008, 12:01 AM
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chiger chiger is offline
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Hey, didn't the French claim some guy had been crashin' all over France for 2 years before the Wright brothers and Kitty Hawk? ;~)

Sounds about right.

chiger,

Last edited by chiger; 10-04-2008 at 12:15 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2008, 03:44 PM
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B.Finnigan B.Finnigan is offline
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Showing off is posting something like a knife and not providing any info on the techniques or processes used. Jerry has been the polar opposite and gone the extra mile to make his discovery a learning experience for all of us that may be interested. That includes posting any and all of the "anomolies" he encountered along the way.

He has also had more then his share of antagonists and know-it-alls question nearly every one of his posts on another forum. I asked him to post this here in the company of more civil members. It's also the antithesis of what this sub-forum is all about. The dialog between him, mete and chiger more then validates that.
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  #29  
Old 10-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Jerry Bennett Jerry Bennett is offline
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That includes posting any and all of the "anomolies" he encountered along the way.
Some of those are quite spectacular and entertaining.
Quote:
He has also had more then his share of antagonists and know-it-alls question nearly every one of his posts on another forum. I asked him to post this here in the company of more civil members. It's also the antithesis of what this sub-forum is all about. The dialog between him, mete and chiger more then validates that.
Kind of weird that. i got banned from a metallurgical forum I belonged to for years. All I did was ask the pros what I just made in my back yard. The responses were friendly and helpful. The next day, I was banned and got the thread deleted. No explanation. *shrug*

Anyway, back to the topic, Brent, I just remebered that they made a substance harder than diamond with rhenium. It ties in with your arc furnace, as they used,.... well an arc furnace to make it. it only has 2 ingredients. Rhenium and boron, which ties in with me, as it is on my patent for a hardening chem, along with nitrogen.

Google rheniumdiboride. I forgot about that.
Thanks for the welcome here folks, Jerry


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  #30  
Old 10-04-2008, 08:04 PM
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B.Finnigan B.Finnigan is offline
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Is that similar to boride coating? A friend of mine is tool grinder at Boeing and he has been telling me about the new coating system he is learning on now. He has given me a few high speed cutters with the coating and it does hold up longer then Ti nitride.

He also told me how simple the Ti nitride coating system is. That will be another scaled down version I will be playing with soon. I allready have all the components needed.
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