MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > High-Performance Blades

High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-25-2005, 07:21 PM
tmickley's Avatar
tmickley tmickley is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Mankato, MN
Posts: 0
I went to the Buck knife site like you suggested and found this information. It appears that 420hc is in fact better in corrosion resistance and tougher than ATS-34 but ATS-34 holds a better edge. I guess we won't need to straighten out the Buck knife people as they already know.:

http://www.buckknives.com/technical_steel.php




ATS-34 - A proprietary product of Hitachi Steel Company, ATS-34 is a very high carbon stainless steel with the addition of Molybdenum. Because ATS-34 provides better edge retention than standard cutlery (stainless) steels, it is a good choice for blades that require heavier cutting applications. Very good edge holding ability
High initial sharpness
Rockwell Rc 60-61
Good toughness when double tempered
Fair corrosion resistance
Less expensive than BG-42 and S30V

Carbon Silicon Chromium Molybdenum
1.05 .35 13.50 - 14.00 4.0


420HC - A higher carbon version of the standard Type 420 martensitic stainless steel. The carbon content combined with the high Chromium content provides for good abrasion resistance and edge holding. This steel is not to be confused with standard 420 stainless steel. 420HC is an excellent general-purpose knife (stainless) steel when heat-treated with our proprietary heat-treat process from Paul Bos. Good edge holding ability
Very good initial sharpness
Resharpens well
Rockwell Rc 58
Good toughness
Very good corrosion resistance
Fine-blankable
Excellent standard knife steel

Carbon Vanadium Silicon Chromium Molybdenum
.44 - 1.00 max 12.00 - 14.00 -
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-26-2005, 07:50 PM
Mike Sader Mike Sader is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Andrews,Texas
Posts: 92
Send a message via Yahoo to Mike Sader
ats34 or 420hc

I noticed a couple of things that stand out to me about the differences here. 1st I think most people (myself included)thought of 420 not 420hc,2nd like Buck says also the heat treat can make or break any steel, I am sure if Paul Bose is doing the HT that the 420HC would be a good choice. That said, Iam like Ed, I just prefer to use and work CS. I even like the patina that comes from peelin potatoes!!! Just my 2cts. Mike Sader
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-27-2005, 11:58 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 449
Alas, the question was "which is the superior steel" and it has gone from there. It is ATS 34 for sure.

Inane prattle from there......
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-27-2005, 12:23 PM
Sam Wereb Sam Wereb is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wooster, Ohio USA
Posts: 250
jl_reb, I hope you learned something from this thread - something other than how funny it is to watch an old-timer flip his wig when his favorite ox is gored.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-27-2005, 01:27 PM
tmickley's Avatar
tmickley tmickley is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Mankato, MN
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveL
Alas, the question was "which is the superior steel" and it has gone from there. It is ATS 34 for sure.

Inane prattle from there......
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:17 PM
AUBE's Avatar
AUBE AUBE is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cebu, Philippines (or Michigan, USA)
Posts: 909
the question was....

"Could somebody give me the scoop on their goods and bads and which is a superior steel."

sounds like they wanted to hear the pros and cons...which is what is being discussed in this thread. superiority depends on the task at hand and the persons own preferences, maybe now the person has a better idea of each steels strong points and can make an informed decision based on them instead of just basing it on others preferences.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-27-2005, 05:04 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmickley
Tracy, you got me! I watched that danged smilie for a good 30 seconds before i was sure it wasn't gonna jump up and down, flip someone off, or whatever. LOL But, all that happened was me and that danged smilie just sat there looking at each other with the same dumbass grin....

The sad part of this thread is that the poster hasn't been back on KN in 5 days and hasn't seen most of this.

Last edited by fitzo; 12-27-2005 at 05:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-27-2005, 06:00 PM
tmickley's Avatar
tmickley tmickley is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Mankato, MN
Posts: 0



:d
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-28-2005, 04:52 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 449
http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828 is a pretty good analysis of steel for anyone still out there....

Sorry I was unable to make it a link for you
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-28-2005, 05:09 PM
tmickley's Avatar
tmickley tmickley is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Mankato, MN
Posts: 0
Good link. It's not clear if Joe wrote that or he was just posting it. Do you know? He's done a good job with it from what I can tell after a quick glance. I'll have to take some time to read it all in detail.

Just to be even more clear on this thread, and anal enough to give it some closure, I too prefer ATS-34 over 420 or 420hc. I favor edge retention and will give up a little in other areas for it. I gave up on ATS-34 a few years back and went to 154CM which as most know is basically the same forumlation as ATS-34 with some minor differences. If Crucible can ever settle in to produce CPM154CM and price it at least near 154CM, I'll switch to that over 154CM as it is much cleaner in appearance than 154CM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:37 PM
AUBE's Avatar
AUBE AUBE is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cebu, Philippines (or Michigan, USA)
Posts: 909
thanks for the link davel

joe has a knack for good articles...i used to have a link of a few he posted but i seem to have lost it...heres one on sharpening he did

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.k...xy=2003&rnum=1
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:43 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 449
Comparing the two, ATS34 and 420HC, I strongly prefer ATS, but let it be known I don't use ATS except on rare occasion and it is not my steel at all. I have never read that 420HC is better than ATS on corrosion resistance but defer to others who say it is so. Howver, I have never, ever heard one word against ATS regarding corrosion problems. Actually, my ox would have been gored more on a couple of different steels. But, this has been a great thread and maybe we have learned some things. A tip of my hat to my fellow posters on this one!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:33 AM
Joel Joel is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA Mountains
Posts: 142
Send a message via AIM to Joel
Buck can say what they wish, but the Buck Rush assisted opening knife I bought with 420HC doesn't particularly hold a good edge. Tried it at work, cutting tape, cardboard, plastic tiedowns etc., and it didn't do as well as my Gerber AR-3.0 in 440A, even though it has a much thinner blade geometry. Blade dulled pretty quickly, even after I re-sharpened it on my belt grinder using a 700 grit Tri-ax belt/buffer to a convex edge. Wan't like I was trying to beat it to death. I use 154CM instead of ATS-34, but I've used the latter, and it's infinitely better than 420HC. As far as toughness goes, if you want to pry things, and this is only what I read and can't personally verify, ATS-34, properly HT'd will supposedly bend around 30 Degrees before snapping(obviously a lot of factors here...blade geometry, distal taper or not etc).

Last edited by Joel; 12-29-2005 at 10:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-10-2006, 01:25 AM
Joe Talmadge Joe Talmadge is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmickley
Good link. It's not clear if Joe wrote that or he was just posting it. Do you know? He's done a good job with it from what I can tell after a quick glance. I'll have to take some time to read it all in detail.
Joe wrote it himself I'm always thrilled to get feedback, corrections, arguments, etc. on the FAQs. If you post your feedback here instead of bladeforums, give me a quick heads-up at heelh00k@yahoo.com to let me know (note those are zeroes in the word "h00k") to check back. I had to balance between something that is more accurate but so technical no one understands it, and the fact that this is meant to be a document readable by newbies but useful to the old hands. I occasionally sweep through the document looking for over-simplifications, and making changes about steels that I've changed my opinion on.

BTW, I agree with the crew, 420 is tougher and resists rust better. ATS-34 holds an edge better in everyday cutting.

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:20 PM
seved seved is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmickley
Good link. It's not clear if Joe wrote that or he was just posting it. Do you know? He's done a good job with it from what I can tell after a quick glance. I'll have to take some time to read it all in detail.

Just to be even more clear on this thread, and anal enough to give it some closure, I too prefer ATS-34 over 420 or 420hc. I favor edge retention and will give up a little in other areas for it. I gave up on ATS-34 a few years back and went to 154CM which as most know is basically the same forumlation as ATS-34 with some minor differences. If Crucible can ever settle in to produce CPM154CM and price it at least near 154CM, I'll switch to that over 154CM as it is much cleaner in appearance than 154CM.

tmickley: I am in progress of try a new stainlessteel and cant deside wich steel to use. Why do you prefer 154 over ATS 34.

I thinking on CPM 154 to and Bg 42.

Seved


__________________
www.sevedsknivar.se

I make knives and blades.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, folding knife, forging, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved