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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-17-2013, 05:59 PM
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Knifemaker96 Knifemaker96 is offline
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knife scaling

Okay I got some pretty bad scaling on my knife how do i remove it quickly?

Also how do i prevent scaling?

I have a old BBQer i use as a forge i bury a metal pipe in the charcoal exposing one end when hot i stick my knife in and heat it up but it comes out covered in scales.

Need to know the best and fastest way. none of the stores around me have anti scaling compound and i don't exactly have the time to order it offline. so are there any home made solution ?

One other thing is that i heard that the scaling was caused because of the oxygen inside the pipe.
So what if i heat the pipe up and when it gets hot i put a few pieces of rolled up paper in it? Then while I'm heating the knife up i keep putting rolled up paper in it? would that work?

Last edited by Knifemaker96; 11-17-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:41 PM
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it's gonna just suck more oxygen in. grind the scale off


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  #3  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:57 PM
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Some guys soak the blade in vinegar over night, they say that makes it easier to remove. I have heard of putting paper inside the pipe, might help some. But, after it's all said and done I just do as Austin suggested and simply grind it off. There's even a special belt made for it if you want to try one, it's made by Hermes and called a Bubble Belt. Its covered with hollow black bubbles that break when you grind with it and the rough edges scrape off the scale....


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Old 11-17-2013, 07:05 PM
KenH KenH is offline
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To prevent scale boric acid (plain old roach powder) does a pretty good job. Heat blade up just enough to melt the white powder which will form a clear coating over the blade. Sprinkle powder on both sides to get a good coat. This will go a long ways toward preventing scale build up.

Once scale is there, take a cheap 4" side grinder ($10 or so from HF) to lightly grind the scale off. MUCH easier/cheaper than using belts.

Ken
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:34 PM
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So the scaling formed when I normalized it so if I harden it and temper it with the scales on can i still grind it off?
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:35 PM
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If you can't grind it off then it's harder than your blade and maybe should stay there ...


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Old 11-18-2013, 05:00 AM
Ed Tipton Ed Tipton is offline
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Knifemaker96 and others...I once watched a demonstration by Joe keeslar during which he sprinkled a small amount of water onto his anvil while saying that he did so to blow away any scale with the resulting flash steam when he brought his blade to the anvil.
As I remember it, he simply dipped his hammer into a container of water and shook off the excess onto his anvil. I don't recall there being any questions from the crowd, and I did not ask, but I just wondered how effective this practice is and I also want to know if there are any bad side effects from this practice. I have never tried doing this but I did notice that he did it every time he removed the piece from the fire, and his end product was excellent...so...Is this a technique just developed by Joe...or is this a widespread technique that could be useful in controlling scale. Apparently, it worked just fine, and I don't recall him ever wire brushing his workpiece or doing anything else to remove any scale.

Last edited by Ed Tipton; 11-18-2013 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:40 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Scaling is normal during forging, however you shouldn't have that much build up during the hardening process. I suspect you are over heating the piece. Did you use the magnet? What did you quench in? During forging, while at forging temp a wire brush will remove much of the scale.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:41 AM
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Ed, it's called wet forging and credited to a Japanese style of forging. It works quite well, but takes time and practice to master....and it is a bit messy. However, it should be noted that if you are experiencing a lot of scale during the forging process and accumulating a lot of scale on and around your anvil, you are forging your steel at too high a heat. This is detrimental to your blade steel if you continue at these heats as the blade takes shape and begins thinning during tapering and beveling. Always going to get some, but it should be minimal.

As far as K96 issue goes, try closing off the back end of the pipe and just tossing a small chip of wood in before inserting the blade. It will help, but most likely with the setup described, it is still an overheating problem for the most part. Yes, one will get more scaling in a coal/charcoal/coke forge due to the richer oxygen environment. Trick is to minimize as much as possible.

Fresh, heated white vinegar will soften and help remove the scale. However, if it is excessive or beaten into the steel during forging it will be much more stubborn about coming off. I use a tall glass pasta container with a gooseneck lamp and 60w bulb. Usually only takes an hour or so to soften the scale enough to scrub off with a wire brush. Real heavy or stubborn scale will take longer, but heck of a lot cheaper than burning belts. Don't be impatient, work on something else while the soak is going on. Best thing about vinegar is it is slow and deliberate, if you forget or get sidetracked it won't eat up your blade like FeCL. It also works very well for slow etching pattern welded blades and reduces the chance of over etching. Big plus is it is user friendly, cheap, and safe to dispose.
Note: Place a flat piece of rubber in the bottom of the vessel. One dropped blade will explain why.


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Old 11-18-2013, 09:19 AM
Ed Tipton Ed Tipton is offline
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CREX...Thanks for the info. I don't have a big problem with scaling, but I may give it a go and see for myself how it works out.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:30 AM
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jmccustomknives: Yes I used a magnet, but I think I over heated my knife. So what im going to do Is harden it and temper today then Let it soak in some warm vinegar for awhile. then hopefully get the scaling off with wire brush or sander. Theres no pitting from what I can tell just a even scaling across the whole blade. I actually like the way it looks, but the person im making it for wants to have a almost mirror finish. I highly doubt She would be pleased with a knife that looks like its been sitting at the bottom of the ocean! Thank you for all your help everyone!
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:52 AM
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R. Yates R. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
Scaling is normal during forging, however you shouldn't have that much build up during the hardening process. I suspect you are over heating the piece. Did you use the magnet? What did you quench in? During forging, while at forging temp a wire brush will remove much of the scale.
I agree something went Very Very wrong @ heat treating . as for removal of the scale bit the bullet and grind it off or start over .

Sam


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Old 11-18-2013, 07:39 PM
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Well the good thing is that its not beaten into the metal its just one the surface and with no pitting. It should come off easily. before Harding and tempering.

Last edited by Knifemaker96; 11-18-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:48 PM
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knife scaling Almost fixed!!

So I went to the store and got some cheap white vinegar and an aluminum turkey pan. I put the knife in the pan and filled the pan about a half inch higher then the knife then threw it in the oven for two hours at 170 degrees Fahrenheit. Low and behold most of the scaling came off!!! well with the help of a wire brush. So now I am going to let it sit for another hour then hit it with the sander. Thank you guys with all the help!!!
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:45 AM
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I'd recommend using a glass (like Pyrex) or stainless steel container. VInegar is a mild acid and will eventually eat through the Al pan. Not sure if it will actually contaminate the steel surface, but there will be Al salts floating around in your vinegar.


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