Anhydrous Borax Questions

[dennie]

Anhydrous Borax Questions
There are a large number of makers who swear by using anhydrous Borax for forge welding. As I understand it, in the scientific and laboratory community, anhydrous simply means ?without water?. In the lab, the compound is weighed and put into an oven. The weight is checked at intervals for LOD, (Loss On Drying). When the compound?s weight doesn?t change, it?s considered dry or anhydrous. It then requires storing in a desiccator to keep it from absorbing moisture from the air, regardless how tight you keep it sealed. Is everyone that uses anhydrous Borax storing it in a desiccator, (expensive), or is there more to anhydrous Borax than just the fact that at one time it was dry? We deal with the same problem with natural handles materials. We can dry it, but it will still change size with the relative humidity. as it gains or loses moisture. I hate to go to the expense and trouble of ordering anhydrous Borax if it?s just a matter of keeping it dry.

Thank you for any help.

[TexasJack]

Most people use 20 Mule Team Borax and just heat it up as needed to dehydrate it. Check out this link Borax (Anvilfire)

Here's a link to someone with a contact for buying the anhydrous stuff: navaching

Hope this helps

[Woodchuck Forge]

According to US borax the dehybor product (anhydrous borax) does not rehydrate in normal storage.

Dehybor? is a product resulting from the dehydration and fusion of borax. It is a hard, glassy material, granular in texture. Dehybor does not rehydrate under ordinary storage conditions, and can be handled in bulk. It is an excellent flux and glass former. In aqueous solution it can provide slow release of boron.

Here is the link to the data sheets. http://www.borax.com/pdfs/dist/DataS...ehybor2010.pdf

I do not know if this applies to DIY anhydrous though.

I use the dehybor and have stored it for years without any difference in performance. I keep it in the factory bags which are perforated. If there was a problem with re-hydration I would have to assume they would ship it in sealed bags. JMHO

[Doug Lester]

There are two ways of making home brewed anhydrous borax that I've run across. One is to just put it in a shallow tray and bake it in an oven for a while. That could rehydrate if exposed to air. The other is to actually melt it in a pot, pour it out onto a tray to solidify, then grind it into a powder. That is probably resistant to rehydration. For the little forge welding that I've done I haven't bothered with dehydrating it; I just used the borax as it comes out of the box.

Doug Lester

[TexasJack]

I should add that I've seen folks use boraxo straight out of the box. It dehydrates pretty rapidly.

[Ed Caffrey]

I personally think there is huge difference between using 20 Mule Team borax and Anhydrous. 20 mule team "foams" up due to the moisture content, and I always wound up using 3-4 times as much of it compared to Anhydrous. I use Anhydrous exclusively, keeping it in an old ammo can next to the forge. It does not adsorb moisture, and keeps it's consistency.

In the past I've made my own anhydrous from 20 Mule team, only to have it re-absorb moisture and become unusable. I generally purchase a 100lb back of Anhydrous about every 18 months.....it's more cost effective, less hassle, and doesn't go bad on the shelf. I also think it works much better than 20 Mule team borax.

I purchase mine from Seattle Pottery Supply.

[dennie]

I really appreciate the input. For a short thread, there is a huge amount of information and experience. Storing anhydrous borax in an ammo can is a really great idea. I know they seal hermetically but never considered them for borax storage. I do use one to make my stencils to keep out stray UV light because they seal so tight.

Chuck, Have you used normal anhydrous borax and if so, is Dehybor just more convenient, or do you feel there are other advantages?

Ed, Do you have any experience with the Dehybor product that Chuck mentions? It sounds like it?s made through the process Doug describes.

I'm not as much interested in DIY Borax as I'm just too cheap to pay someone to stick it in an oven if that was all it amounted to. As I usually do, I don't want me being cheap to be my biggest enemy for good forge welds.

Thank you all for your insight. I?m humbled by the amount of forging experience represented from your replies.

dennie

[Woodchuck Forge]

Dehybor is plain anhydrous borax. It is just the company name for it. I have use 20 mule team and it works OK and has for years and many smiths. I like the anhydrous due to the benefits Ed mentioned and it melts at a slightly lower temp. I use very little of it now since I do the greater majority of my welding dry. I sometimes use the borax as an extra level of protection for a high man hour billet.

PLEASE do not use BORAXO. it has soap in it. Use 20 mule team laundry booster. Make sure it does not have added soap in it. That is if you decide to forgo the anhydrous.

[Woodchuck Forge]

Make sure you are ordering Anhydrous. Last time I ordered from Seattle pottery I asked for anhydrous and received 50lbs of regular 20 mule team. I have started buying from a local chemical company in Portland. I bought 200lbs of the dehybor 3 years ago and still have 160lbs left. It will last me a very long time.

US Borax will give you a listing of local suppliers or at least some that are closer to you than So Cal.