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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
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#1
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forced patina/etching to blacken 1084 blade?
I'm thinking of trying this vinegar etch on my knife in the hat project. Has anybody here ever etched 1084 before also what grit do you recommend finishing the blade too before the etch. My goal is to blacken the blade and maybe bring out the Quench line if i can.
I think that the dark blade with light scales would look very cool. If anybody has any pics of a blade done like this I would love to see it. I'm gonna do this under the guidance of a local guy here that has done it on a few of his blades I'm just trying to gather up information to make my decision. |
#2
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Ask your buddy what he thinks about doing a ferric chloride etch and not scrubbing off the patina with steel wool. That will give you dark gray patina with the 1084.
Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#3
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1084 will get darker, but the easily scratched oxide layer should be removed, it wouldn't be durable enough to leave it as the finish.
Remove all oils from blade, Heat your vinegar in a canning Jar that is set in a pot of water. When It gets close to boiling put the blade in and etch for 10 minutes, pull out, neutralize and scrub off oxides with 0000 steel wool. Repeat till you like what you see. If the blade is too big for a canning jar you can do it in a pan in the oven set to 220 degrees. Nothing to it really except make sure there are no fingerprints or grease on the blade during the process. |
#4
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I use ferric chloric all the time. Baking soda will darken it a little if applied right after the etch. Or put it in the ferric and forget about it for a while. But obviously there are potential problems with that. Any grit as long as the final is by hand in my experience, the higher the nicer obviously.
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#5
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Go to at least 600 grit. Any scratches left in the blade will only get bigger and darker when you etch the blade. There's another thread here about that problem. The vinegar etch is slower and more controlled, I use a 60wtt bulb in a gooseneck lamp to warm mine and keep it warm. You can leave it in over night with no worries. The FeCl3 is more aggressive unless diluted quite a bit. Not to argue with Eli, but I'd never put a blade in FeCl3 and walk away. It will exploit all the scratches and pits, if you forged the blade or if you used less than high grade 1084 (some from a certain supplier - not Aldo - had thousands of micro pin holes after etching).
In either case make sure you thoroughly kill the etch with baking soda solution or amonia and follow with soap and hot water wash. Some boil the blade afterward. Ferric will sneak up and keep etching/rusting the blade while you are not looking if you don't. Go by the thrift store and get one of those tall glass vases or spaghetti jars for you etchant. One with a lid is preferrable. If you leave Ferric uncovered in your shop it will rust all your Fe based metal. Also vinegar is easier and safer to dispose. Both will stain your fingers so wear rubber gloves. Tip - put a piece of rubber in the bottom of the glass container. You only have to let one blade drop to find out why. Also you can use the vinegar etchant later to stain sheaths or wood black....the "vinegaroon" reacts with the tannin in either to make them go to a soft black. If you are really going for that "aged" look, mustard etch followed by a dip in muratic acid. This takes practice to get right so don't try it on a good blade until you've worked the process out on some scrap steel. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H Last edited by Crex; 03-16-2013 at 06:30 AM. |
#6
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perfect patina
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#7
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While that practice (dishwasher) might produce the effect you want on the steel, it will play heck with most any handle material.
Plus part of the reason Hondo is wanting to etch is to enhance the edge-quench differential. Since you are not actually etching the steel in the DW, it may not enhance this effect. If I think to, I will give this a try with a blade blank that's already been HT'd and see what happens. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
#8
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danedgeman / i dont know how to dry only with a dish washer / do you know of any ohther non scid way,s do blacken carbon knifes ?
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#9
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no kidding
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#10
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run wash cycle
;462744]danedgeman / i dont know how to dry only with a dish washer / do you know of any ohther non scid way,s do blacken carbon knifes ?[/QUOTE]
Run the wash cycle just like you were washing your dishes and make sure "drying heat" is on. I dont know for sure but it is I believe the same effect as the weatherization treatment they use to test the effects of 20 years of weather in a 24 hour or so peroid of time. Also the steam is hot enough to scald you. As near as I can tell it looks just luke a knife that has been in your pocket for many years, and its TOUGH. The patima will not wash off or come off when cutting. I use my knives everyday, at work etc. It might come off with steel wool or an abrasive, i dont know because I have never tried to scrub it off.I oil my knife after about a week then it goes in the safe and I switch it out and so on. |
#11
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Crex
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The exact same molecular change as time only faster in a smaller controlled envoirnment |
#12
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I swear guys this works with absolutely no damage to handles, brass pins,silver bolsters etc. Acids and chemicle treatments will never touch my knives (to each his own, I mean no disrespect to others or their technics) think about all the cheap wal mart steak knives with their rivets and such you have run through the dishwasher with no damage.
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#13
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Repeated high temp thermal cycles on the handle may cause issues with handle material and/or epoxies leading to failure.
I think if you look at your favorite knife restaurants steak knives, you'd find fit and finish issues that most wouldn't find acceptable YMMV |
#14
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danedqeman/ ill get the wife to run to unfinished blades trow for me i live close to a army base ive give a simply knife ore to to some boys going to the litterbox these seem to like dull no shine knifes . ill post after to washings ,
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#15
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Tags |
acid, blade, blades, brass, christmas, edge, etch, etching, forge, forged, hand, handle, heat, hot, how to, knife, knives, make, material, project, scales, steel, store, wax |
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