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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:08 AM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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What is the secret

What is the secret to making the stainless foil pouches air tight. No matter how many times I fold the edges or how tight I get the seams, I always end up with some air in the bag and then having to try and remove the carbonization. Is there some tutorial somewhere or maybe someone sells zip lock baggies for the kiln. I am willing to try just about anything at this point.
Thanks
Steve


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  #2  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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Why make them air tight? Just add something to the inside of the pouch to create a reducing atmosphere, I know a couple guys use paper and end up with some pretty excellent results.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:20 PM
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Here is what I use, works perfect.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...r-Dynamat.html
The method I use is fold the foil so there is about a 1/2 seam and roll repeatedly with the roller, now fold again and roll. Yes folding twice uses more of that exspencive foil but as long as my tip does not puncture the foil, I have had 100% suuccess in making a air tight pouch.
Personally I have never tried the "paper in the pouch" to use the oxgen but several people have said it works.

Brett
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:35 PM
argel55 argel55 is offline
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I use a wide welding plier from Harbour Freight to fold the foil. Then a second time fold on both ends. I use kraft paper or cardboard piece inside the envelope to take care of oxygen. Doublefold the top of envelope again. I insert the blade edge up when making the envelope.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:52 PM
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Karl B. Andersen Karl B. Andersen is offline
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Steve, some good advice here, buddy.
I double wrap mine with folds on opposite sides.
I place a piece of brown paper grocery bag inside the very first layer with the work piece.
This burns and eats up the oxygen inside the package.


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Old 01-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Bob Hatfield Bob Hatfield is offline
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Steve, I do not use any paper inside the pouch and get perfect results. I also use a double fold on all open sides. The difference is that I use a smooth face ball peen hammer to lightly tap the intire lenght of the fold while the pouch is laying on a smooth hard surface.
I make first fold, and tap intire lenght, maked second fold and tap intire lenght again. Just make sure the hammer has a very smooth face to prevent making small holes in the foil.


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Old 01-05-2013, 08:13 PM
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I don't have any problems.

I simply fold once, draw the head of a wooden mallet along the fold, fold again, drag the mallet head hard along the edge again.

Double fold on the side and both ends mashed flat by drawing the mallet along the edges.

I don't add anything inside.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:01 AM
Pairomedicsfish Pairomedicsfish is offline
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I know that using foil helps, but what is the idea precisely? Also, am I right to assume that when using a foil pouch, you are using a heat treating oven instead of a forege type setup?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:51 AM
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The foil is used to protect the work from scaling. At the temps (1900's) necessary for treating stainless knife steels and the soak times at temp., the steel would lose a lot of carbon, which turns into scale.

Yes, it's used in a furnace.

Last edited by Don Robinson; 08-25-2013 at 07:09 AM.
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  #10  
Old 08-24-2013, 08:12 AM
Pairomedicsfish Pairomedicsfish is offline
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Gotcha, thanks...
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  #11  
Old 08-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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I double fold all mine and also put 2 pinches of hard wood saw dust in the pouches one on the foil lay the knife on it and sprinkle the other on the blade before closing up ( like sprinkling salt on food ) I have a shaker for my fine saw dust (Hardwood type ) it acts just like the paper as it consumes the oxygen in the foil pack. just my way of doing it Old Smith showed me about 15 years ago .

Sam


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Old 08-25-2013, 06:40 AM
nate d. nate d. is offline
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Note: There is a low temperature foil and a hi temperature foil!
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:14 PM
KenH KenH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pairomedicsfish View Post
I know that using foil helps, but what is the idea precisely? Also, am I right to assume that when using a foil pouch, you are using a heat treating oven instead of a forege type setup?
As the other folks say to protect the blade to prevent scaling - works a champ for sure. I've got an electric oven on order, but have heat treated a few Sandvik 12C27 blades in a gas forge by using a muffler pipe to protect the SS foil from the direct flame. The ceramic tip protecting the TC goes inside the muffler pipe also to monitor the temp. The Sandvik only requires a 5 minute soak, so it's not hard to hold 1950 to 1975?F temp range for only 5 minutes.

Having fun and learning!!
Ken H>
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advice, blade, blades, edge, flat, folding, forge, hammer, heat, knife, lock, make, making, package, stainless, surface, tutorial, wood, wrap


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