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The Folding Knife (& Switchblade) Forum The materials, techniques and the designing of folding knives.

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:08 PM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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Detent discovery

I am absolutely certain I am not the first to think of this but I have never seen it described anywhere. As I said in an earlier post I had the dilemma of not having enough overlap on my spring in order to fit the detent ball into the spring. But after thinking about it for a while I saw no reason that the detent had to be in the spring. So I moved it into the body of the folder. By locking the blade and the liner into the correct closed position I drilled with a #60 bit where I wanted the detent to be. I drilled thru both liners and the blade. I then drilled out both liners to a #53 and inserted 2 detent balls one on each side. This has the added benefit of not pushing the blade off center when it is closed. The detents stick out just a couple of 1000's further than the .010 washers. You can see the line on the blade where the detent touches. But the only time the detent touches is just at the time of almost closed. The extra little hole just above the detent was where I screwed up the first drilling. This method seems to work really well.
Any questions or comments please let me know.
Steve


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Last edited by SVanderkolff; 04-06-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:24 PM
CWKnifeman CWKnifeman is offline
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Stephen, I had wondered about doing something like that on some of my thinner locking liner folders. Thanks for sharing.
Curtis


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Old 02-16-2010, 06:59 AM
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SharpByCoop SharpByCoop is offline
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Devil's Advocate here.....

Hi Steve, I love how you are thinking OUT OF THE BOX!

But, ummmmmm....

So the dual detents work by the spreading action of the liners just as it closes the last 5-6mm? And then the balls release into the holes by .002" on each side? OK.

Now, as you firm up the handle with scales or bolsters, this will stiffen up this friction, right? Hmmmmmmm.

Also the flexible spring allows the detent ball to travel into the hole and allow more than .002" penetration to keep the blade under tension in the closed position. Does this do that with no play at all?

Lastly, the secondary task of the detent ball is to reduce the amount of friction the lock places upon the blade as it swings open and closed. Without this detent is your entire lock face is dragging on the blade? What's the solution for this?

It all sounds like Michael Walker would be saying tsk, tsk.

I am unconvinced this is a suitable method. In this case it may be workable at best. Of course I'd have to feel it, but I've felt the smoothest folders in the universe. I hope this is one of them.

Coop


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Old 02-16-2010, 09:22 AM
Kirby Bletcher Kirby Bletcher is offline
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Originally Posted by SharpByCoop View Post
Lastly, the secondary task of the detent ball is to reduce the amount of friction the lock places upon the blade as it swings open and closed. Without this detent is your entire lock face is dragging on the blade? What's the solution for this?
Coop
This was my first concern. You make some other good points as well Coop. It seems something has to give between the detent ball and blade. Not saying it cant be done but I would think it would create some other problems making more work than necessary in the end.

Keep us posted Steve I'm curious how well it will work when everything is together.

Kirby


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Old 02-16-2010, 04:57 PM
AlanR AlanR is offline
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As a newbie I'm watching this thread closely because I've been asked to do a liner lock sometime this year. I've been under the impression that the ball was meant to keep the lock off the blade as well so I'm awaiting this outcome.

Glad to see some discussion going.

-AlanR
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:26 AM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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Jim
Thanks for your response. I have put the knife together other than the bolsters and scales. It seems to be working very well. I think the reason it is working are mostly based around the thickness of the ti.
This method would not work if we were dealing with a thicker piece of titanium. at .040 these scales ar very flexible. With .002 indent on each side this gives us a total deflection required of .004 which does not seem to be problem. The friction of the lock against the side of the blade is very light. I have rounded the edge of the titanium so it does not catch on the blade steel . Also the lock on this knife is 5/32 wide, 1 3/4 " long and since it is the thin ti has very light action. If we were talking about one of the tactical knifes with the very beefy locks this would be more of a problem. It will be very interesting to see how it performs once I install the bolsters and scales. I will keep you posted.
Steve


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Old 02-17-2010, 08:50 AM
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Thanks, Steve. All great ideas had pundits. The better ones defeated them!

Keep us posted.

Coop


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Old 02-17-2010, 11:26 AM
Crockett Crockett is offline
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Hi Stephen,

I saw a somewhat similar idea years ago but I don't remember whose knife it was. The execution was different in that it used only one ball, not two. The ball was in the opposite liner, not the locking liner. There was an elongated "U" cut probably done with a laser or waterjet that created a tab with some "spring" to it and the ball was set into this tab.

I think your idea is good. It allows more flexibility in the design and shape of the knife.

Don
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:19 PM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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I have finally completed this knife and have been wandering around playing with it for a week. The double detent idea has worked really well. I find that because the resistance from the balls is released right after it starts to open it acts in some ways like a spring to pop the blade open. No problem with too much tension that I have been able to tell. I think the secret here is the thinness of the liners and the proximity of the detent hole to the edge of the ricasso. It will be interesting to see if I can duplicate this in the next knife or if someone else can dupliate it as well. I plan on bringing this one down to Blade with me so hopefully everybody else can have a look as well and tell me what you think.
Thanks
Steve


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Old 02-25-2010, 05:59 PM
Whiskers Whiskers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVanderkolff View Post
I have finally completed this knife and have been wandering around playing with it for a week. The double detent idea has worked really well. I find that because the resistance from the balls is released right after it starts to open it acts in some ways like a spring to pop the blade open. No problem with too much tension that I have been able to tell. I think the secret here is the thinness of the liners and the proximity of the detent hole to the edge of the ricasso. It will be interesting to see if I can duplicate this in the next knife or if someone else can dupliate it as well. I plan on bringing this one down to Blade with me so hopefully everybody else can have a look as well and tell me what you think.
Thanks
Steve
Steve, do you think that using two detent balls would hold the blade closed if a leaf spring was used to make this an assisted opening knife?
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:16 AM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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I don;t know. I have never made an assisted opening knife so I don;t know how much tension is reuired to hold it in. It is not a lock more of a fristion hold. Might be real interesting to try. depending on the amount of hold required it would certainly make a nice solution. Let us know if you try it.
Thanks
STeve


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