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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2004, 11:28 AM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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Tapping heads

I'm attempting my first folder this week. The Ti liners are ground to shape and the pivot pin and stop pin are drilled and in place. I am using 1-72 screws for all else. I'm ready to drill the tap holes for these screws then tap with my tapping head I'll be buying on Tuesday.I've never used a tapping head before. Can I tap through BOTH liners at the same time and still be able to start the screws from the opposite liner or should I tap them 1 at a time from the outside of each liner?
If tapping them both at the same time would be OK, I was thinking of trying to find a drill/tap combo in 1-72 for a one step operation. Thanx, Pat
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2004, 12:01 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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A) You don't need a tapping head to work on folders. Ihave one and make lots of folders, but never use the tapping head for that kind of light work. If you want to use one that's fine, just drill you holes larger than normal to reduce the virtual certainty of breaking taps if you were to use the standard sized holes on small taps in a pwered head. Lots of people will disagree with what I just said. Tough. It's your money, spend it any way you please.

B) There is no need and no advantage to tapping both liners at once and several serious disadvantages. Ti is tricky enough to tap without doubling the thickness. For screws that hold on the scales, that might work out but for the screws that will hold the knife together you do not want to tap both sides of the knife. The side where the screw first enters the handle (the 'mark' side) should have a clearance hole, only the opposite side (the 'post' side) should be tapped. Tap both sides and you won't be able to assemble the knife correctly.

C) I've never seen a 1-72 drill tap combo but maybe they exist. For Ti, you want a cobalt drill and a HSS tap. You won't find that in a combo. If there is a combo it will be pricey. The tap will wear out before the drill usually so now you get to buy an expensive new combo instead of a cheap tap. Again, it's your money.

D) The 'tapping head' conversation pops it's ugly head up periodically in these forums . To me, it is a similar situation to the Newbies who think they are saving money by making knives from scrap steel, or the Newbies who want to use a jig because it's too hard to learn to hollow grind, or the Newbies who will do absolutely the most insane things to avoid heat treating a blade. Folders are hard enough to learn to make without making things even more complicated. You're not a production facility trying to make 1000 knives per day and, unless you are very rich, you can spend the tapping head money in places that will do your knife making more good. Power tapping will work if you fudge the hole sizes a little but you don't need it. Put in the time learning the craft, learn to use drills and taps. In the end you'll find you can do things that others who limit themselves to power tappers and combo drills don't have the versatility to do.....


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Old 12-12-2004, 01:08 PM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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That's a lot to comtemplate, Ray! I've seen your site and tutorials and respect your opinions. I too am of the thread that says there is no substitute for perfecting my craft through hard work, honing my skills through patience and practice, learning from my mistakes, etc. But taps and I go back a long way(30+ years before knives) and I'd rather not restart my learning curve on this aspect of folding knives. After I drill and tap both liners I plan on drilling the clearance hole in one liner for the through screws, then, no doubt, have other questions for you good people on this forum. Thanx, Pat
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2004, 05:01 PM
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Bill Vining Bill Vining is offline
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I've never tapped through two liners at once using my tapping head. I see no harm other than a bit more wear on the taps. I superglue my liners together and drill all the holes at the same time. After separation, I countersink and tap the required holes, then drill out the others for clearance. It's a great way to ensure everything lines up perfectly.

Just my .002

Bill


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  #5  
Old 12-12-2004, 06:59 PM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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Thanks Bill; I didn't think of the extra wear on the taps. I'll try it few times(with both liners)to see if it is something I want to stay with, and if it works out I'll retire the taps a little early. Otherwise I'll tap just one liner at a time. Thanx, Pat
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2004, 07:07 PM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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Note to Bill. I just looked at your web site and saw some AMAZING looking knives. Beautiful work!
Pat
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:32 PM
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tmickley tmickley is offline
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I wouldn't tap both liners at once. You're just asking for trouble. Taps, can and do break using a tapping head. I know this for a fact. I understand what Ray says about not needing a tapping head, but dang I like mine. I got it used on ebay for about half of what a new one would run and at the rate I was breaking taps before it was worth it. Once you get it tuned in, tapping with even a 1-72 will take mere seconds for several holes. You just won't need to do two at once and there is no other advantage. If you haven't already, buy some ferric chloride acid for when you do break a tap in the Ti and can't get it out. Soak overnight, the Ti isn't affected and the tap is eaten enough to pick out.
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Old 12-13-2004, 10:57 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Another "trick" when tapping titanium is to use one drill bit size larger than recommended for the tap. For example, a 2-56 tap calls for a #50 drill bit. When tapping titanium I use a #49 for thinner stock, and a #48 for thicker titanium (framelocks). Even with a #48 drill bit, you will rip the heat off a 2-56 screw before the threads give out.


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  #9  
Old 12-15-2004, 01:27 AM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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Hey! Thanks for the tips, gentlemen. I did decide to go with just one liner to tap and it worked out good. Ferric chloride, huh? Will that work on a broken tap I have in a piece of ATS-34? That's what I like about this site...one answer,tip,etc. leads to another answer,tip,etc. Thanx again, Pat
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2004, 09:45 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The ferric chloride will eat the tap no matter what metal the tap is stuck in. But, ferric chloride will not react at all with titanium . It will react with other metals to some degree depending on the particular metal. It will probably etch the ATS-34 and might even pit it quite a bit, depending on the concentration of the ferric chloride you use so a test piece soaked over night would help you access the risks and whether or not you'll be able to repair the damage to the ATS-34 part.....


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  #11  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:06 AM
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titaniumdoctor titaniumdoctor is offline
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Ed and Ray have it right in my opinion. I'm a newbie, just started my eigth knife. Most of my tapping is 2-56 and 1-72. I've been using the same taps on all eight knives without breaking one yet. I have 3 2-56 taps. One full tap, one I ground about .020 off the tip and one I ground about .100 off the tip for flat bottoming holes such as for my thumb stud hole. I use my taps in a standard keyless drill chuck and I run the mill at 130 rpm while putting a small amount of pressure on the quill. I then stop the spindle and reverse it, again with a small amount up upward pressure on the quill. She squeaks a little comming out, but I haven't broken one yet. As others said, I always use a drill size larger when tapping for scales where strength is not required. I use an on size tap drill for the sructural screws. Just make sure you buy American made taps. Better yet, carbide.
Now a question for you all, can anyone post pictures here, or do you have to be a paying member. It says I can do everything but post attachments.

Thanks, good luck


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  #12  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:31 AM
pjelect pjelect is offline
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Thanks for the help, gentlemen. Pat
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