First Damascus Knife Problems

[DanCrabtree]

I started a damascus knife yesterday, used 1060 and mild steel both 1/4 inch rod. I ground the bars clean and twisted the 2 peices together. there was about 6 inches of coiled mild steel and 1060. I then started the weld. Everything went very good up until I started forging. I got to 128 layers. I started forging and had one heck of a time trying to forge the tang. Well the tang is screwed up. Its on the spine of the knife and angles upward. The welds seemed to take good with a few exceptions, i used borax as fulx and im usinging a coal forge using schell blacksmith coal. when finished there was a pit in the middle of the blade and the knife is only about 4 inches long and very thin. I dont know how i got from 2 1/4 inch peices which I assumed once welded would be like one 1/2 inch x 6 inch bar. The pattern is awsome. Can someone give me a few pointers in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

[tonn]

Dan!
It's natural, that some of the steel burns out. More You heat a steel more burns out. At welding temp burning is very intense. You can start with thinner steels in more layers and instead of folding cut in several pieces. It takes more time but less welding heats.
Make a bigger billet! anyway!

Using a powerhammer for welding and forging reduces time and number of welding heats.
When working with bigger pieces of steel or iron most of the time goes to heat it up! So - reducing the number of heats = reducing the time spent!

Good luck!

[Lawrence Kemp]

Hi Dan,
Sounds like you're already hooked on the Damascus bug! I'm not sure I understand your question though. Are you saying you started with 2 pieces of 1/4" round rod? If that is the way you are starting, the way I would do it would be to use more than two pieces, make sure the ends are either welded or bound together,and twist them tight with lots of flux at a weld heat to get it started.

If you are talking about square rod, then I would weld it first, and then twist or manipulate the pattern. Either way, I know what you mean about finishing with less steel than you thought you would have!
I try to plan on 50% more than what I think I'll need, because I grind clean between my welds, heat loss, etc. To say nothing of the bonehead mistakes I make in between!
Don't forget also that 1060 and say 1018 will not give you a real high carbon content in the finished product. Carbon migration is a lesson I learned is a fact.

Well, that's the way things work in my shop anyway. There are people here that can give you better help than I can, but I hope some of that may help you.

[DiamondG Knives]

Hello Dan

Glad to hear yo have stepped of of the ledge and jumped into damascus, but be careful!! Its very addictive!!

Sounds like yo may have had one or two problems, or a combination of both.

1. Not at a welding heat thruought the welding process. I know in a coal forge this can be tricky, sitting on the fence between not hot enough, and burning the steel! With practice, you will learn to recognize welding heats, for me at least, it was just a matter of doing it and becoming comfortable with it.

2. Contaminated welds. With a coal fire, its not as easy for me to keep the "Gunk" from the welding surfaces! My only reccomendation would be to flux heavy, and if in doubt, fling your billet twords the floor to fling out any excess gunk that may be trapped in the mix. Reflux and take to welding heat again, then weld.

Somthing you might look into, is throwing in some chainsaw files. They are fairly cheap, I get the "Viking" Brand from swedwn for $.99 each at the local hardware store. Be careful and dont get any that are case hardened. I dont know if you have access to a welder, but if you do, try making up a 1" TO 1.5" bundle of mixed rods, with the larger portion being high carbon. I put mine in a hose clamp to hold them, then weld the ends solid, and attatch a steel handle to them to aid in forging, (I dont like tongs!) Take to a good heat, flux, fling, reflux, work the round billet on the step down of your anvil, rotating while welding, or take to a welding heat then twist, like a cable. I have found its a little easier for me to twist as my first weld. Either using a pipe wrench and a vise, or 2 sets of channel locks, wear gloves here! Dont over do it here, twist at a welding heat, and dont try to twist too much, or you will shear the billet. Twisting seems to help keep the billet a little more condensed while forging. If you dont feel comfortable doing a large billet, just make one that fits your need, and dont be afraid to try things you might think of! Thats where the cool stuff comes from!! Also, mistakes arnt wasted, they are learning experiances!! Ask me how I know this!!!

Hope this helps more than it confuses, and if you have any questions, please feel free to drop me an email, or give me a call.

God Bless and Happy Hammering!

Mike

[DanCrabtree]

I started my 2nd damascus billet and it has been another bitter sweet experience. The billet consisted of 4 6 inch rods of plowtine (roughly 1080) and 2 6 inch rods of mild steel. Then I threw in a peice of coil spring, a file, and an old wrench. I welded the ends with a MIG welder and welded it to a 1" bar. Unfortonatly it was very hard to weld it down by myself but I got it into a bar form and took it over to my friends house who I am teaching blacksmithing and started over at his shop. It must of been a heck of a sight because we couldnt find a sledge hammer and we had 3 cross peins. He took 2 of them I held one and in my otherhand the billet. and we would pound on each taking our turn hammering on it. It seems the weld took pretty good (I dont see any wrenches or files) and then the 1" broke off. Then using a modified pair of tongs we started to form the head into an axe. There wasnt enough metal for the traditional butterfly style and welding the ends together (honestly there probally was but It wasnt drawn down enough.). So instead I left a big hunk of the billet for the blade and started to draw down the other side. I then planned to fold this over on the back end of the axe and weld it together. BUT the weld didnt take so I straited it out and am back at the drawing boards....... Any Ideas? Also to bring out pattern, what steps should i take, as far as sanding and etching?

Also, after while another friend came along who had no forging experience before and very little hammer control. Thank god we were on my friends RR track anvil instead of my 120 lbs peter wright.... Otherwise after the series of half moons he put in it that red hot billet would be somewhere the sun doesnt shine :evil

[paul harm]

dan , you'll want to keep the total carbon content above .6 for a knive . the carbon will migrate and equal out in the billet with 4 or 5 folds , so if the stock is all the same size and you have 3 pieces of 1084 , and 2 of 1018 you'll end up with 57.6 carbon content , not counting any carbon loss from the heating and welding [ the 5 pieces added and divided by 5 ] . that's probably a bit too low . some will sy you don't get a caron loss , but i like to play it safe and keep well above the .6 area . i peronally like to use 1084 and 01 , or 01 and 5160 , then i don't have to figger anything . just some thoughts - paul