Migration era shortswords

[BrB]

Hello guys,

I wonder if there were any viking double edged shortswords and if you happen to have any pictures of them. I like the seax, but I have been itching to make something with a fuller but since I am no great forger I figured I should start smaller... any design tips?

[BrB]

Yeah, and by the way... I was thinking about some runes on the blade, but even if I can find tons of websites on runes, it has been dificult to find one that looks historically accurate. All I can find are those of sorcery or magic style. No offence but I don't trust the historical background unless they can prove some rigorous research...:confused:

[T L Smith]

Try the one below. It seems to co-inside with a show I saw on PBS a long time ago. BTY my Google search string was " norse rune stones ". I was trying for some pictures of the large rune stones scattered all over scandinavia. Hope it helps.

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/

Tom

[BrB]

Thanks for the help with the runes. I will look into that.

This is sort of what I had in mind, in gometry looks (I can't make damascus so, it will be plain ol 5160) with brown patina fittings, dark wood handle warped in leather. It will be my first project when I set up the shop (in a week or two) on it's new place. I also plan to etch the blade, to make it look like the ones Gib does. It will be fun, but I wish I could find more information on how to asemble a norse sword and how short they ever got.



I have been looking into online museums and antique sites but never came across something like this.

[mstu]

The book Swords of the Viking Age (by Ian Peirce , Boydell and Brewer 2002 , Hardback, ISBN 0 85115 914 1) has some good documentation of the different inscriptions on Viking blades, most are not quite runes but some look like omegas facing each other and other patterns.

[BrB]

I wish I could afford imported books.. exchange rates make them pretty expensive. Would you mind to scan a few examples if I do not ask too much? I could then compare to the websites on ruinc inscriptions and symbols and try to figure something out...

[Chuck Burrows]

Jeff-
Check out the info on Jake Pownings site re: runes - he knows of what he speaks.

Jake and a few others that are heavily into Norse and Migration era swords hang out over on Don Fogg's forum - you may want to ask your questions there http://www.dfoggknives.com/cgi-bin/I...ikonboard.cgi? and also again here in the Outpost.

You could also send Dr Jim aka Attar an email via his website - Jim is always helpful and post here as JPH.

Most Norse swords I've ever seen had a long tang that went throught the guard, grip and pommel and then were peened over. Internally they were often sealed with pine rosin.
BTW I'm the one doing the etch on Gib's and my collaboration blades - Gib leaves the forge finish - not an etch - on the spine and then I do the final etch of the "shiny" parts. I'll be glad to expain how if that is waht you are talking about.

[BrB]

I sure do! I thought he did the etch ... sorry for the mistake. I will check on Don Fogg's forum then, and see what I can found out. I have a couple of books from Jim, they are very nice. I also keep looking for pictures of his work for inspiration.

The thing about yur etching is that it is so good looking and it also preserves the blade so well, up to the edge. I would very much like to hear about it if you don't mind.

[Chuck Burrows]

No problem Jeff-

The basic etch is done using gun blue and chlorine bleach but since gun blue is not available to you just use chlorine bleach (the stuff used for whitening clothes). The gun blue speeds up the reaction mainly.

Let you blade soak in a bath of pure bleach for about half an hour. Remove, wash in hot soapy water, and then polish with steel wool or fine sandpaper. Repeat if needed/wanted. It's best to do it in quarter to half hour increments in order to control the amount/depth of etching. It's a tough finish for sure.

Here are some other home brewed etching methods:
http://www.lametalsmiths.org/news/page9.htm

[DiamondG Knives]

Chuck:
Do you use the blueing before you soak in bleach?
Also, you referd to a tough finish, is this somthing kind of like parkerizing?

God Bless

Mike

[Chuck Burrows]

Here's the full process using the blue
NOTE: WHEN USING THIS PROCESS DO NOT SOAK IN THE BLEACH FOR MORE THAN 10-15 MINUTES AT A TIME!!!!
I blue first with Birchwood Casey's Super Blue (not their Perma Blue) and while still wet I rub the blade smooth with 4/0 steel wool. I then immediately immeress it in straight Clorox Bleach for about 10-15 minutes. To finish it up wash it in hot water and soap to kill the action (it looks like a rusted nightmare when taken from the Clorox bath). I then sand with a fine Scotchbrite pad or steel wool.
Here's a pic of three blades (Cactus Rose #2 is the one on the right) all three were etched in the same way at the same time - all three are different - especially like the one on the left.


PS Another nice thing about this finish is it is REALLY tough. Also the same mixture of blue/bleach can be used to put a patina on copper/brass - rub them with the blue and then while wet wipe on some bleach - takes some work to get it right and you may have to reapply/steel wool back down but it gives real nice Old Timey patina when done right.

Mike as to Parkerizing I don't know anything about the process so I can't say yea or nay.

[BrB]

Thanks for the info Chuck... I will let you see the results... I am itching to start this project. I am just sad I will have to wait two more weeks to move my stuff to the new place...

By the way, I made a google search on Jake Pownings and came up with mothing... if anyone has the url, please paste or contact me. Thank you very much.

[Chuck Burrows]

Here you go-
http://www.powning.com/jake/home/j_homepg.shtml

[BrB]

No need... I found him on Don Foggs forum. Thanks


Edited to thank.. you were faster than me Chuck! I hope we never have to fight with .45 peacemakers!

[Jake Powning]

there is a really cool short braud sword at the National Museum of Ireland, Dublin.
I have been unable to find images or information on it on the internet, but I have a nice picture of it in a timelife book called 'life amoung druids and high kings, Celtic Ireland AD 400-1200'

the sword has a braud laminated Iron blade and cast copper fittings, the pommel appears to be in one piece, and it has knotwork coverred ferrules. It almost appears to be an Irish variant of the viking sword as it is quite unique looking. Anyway, sorry to ramble on about a sword I don't have a picture of, but it is the only example of a nordic shortsword that I have come accross.
You've probably already seen this one but there is a really cool anglo saxon Seax in the brittish museum with the entire anglo saxon runic alphabet inlayed in the blade the Seax of Beagnoth