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Knife Kits Forum New to the art of knife making? Learn to make awesome knives, using advanced hands-on training inside. From KnifeKits.com.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 01-08-2002, 01:05 PM
andy gascoigne
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Copying ethics


What are your thoughts on a beginer using say a 605 as a pattern for a knife with higher spec materials such as ti liners and bolsters.
I would of course give the original designer the credit for the design when selling.

By the way I think the idea of a kit knife site and forum is one of the greatest aids in getting new knife makers like myself into producing higher grade knives, can't wait to see some slip joint folders and an auto..

Andy Gascoigne.
  #2  
Old 01-08-2002, 01:51 PM
SIGGI
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It is not a bad way to learn how to make liner lock knives. I believe Mike Connor (spelling?) has posted pics of the folder that he made based off the 605. It helps knock down the learning curve. You are correct in giving credit for the concept, but you will find that it is the basic concepts of the folder that you need to learn and then you will be able to come up with you own designs.

I think that the 605 is the greatest thing since sliced bread in the kit knife category.

Bob Sigmon
  #3  
Old 01-08-2002, 02:45 PM
Sam Wereb
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I don't know what the designer thinks, but as a customer, I would think you dealt honestly with me if you told me that your handmade knife was based on the 605 design. I'd know it, independently, but your saying so would show me good faith.

Never before was a folder kit produced with as much precision, and basic quality, or which allowed such an ample pallete for artistic interpretation. This is the "Green River Skinner" of folder kits and, thus, it will be copied repeatedly.

This kit changes the way beginners begin, and the "copying" issue needs to be put to rest right away.
  #4  
Old 01-08-2002, 03:07 PM
CKDadmin
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I totally agree ... they are for learning tools. The fact that they make a great knife in the end is part of the "high-end" twist to the concept.

The end result should be reduced learning time and the future impact on the market. Anything that leads to more fun and better knives is good for the industry!

Alex
  #5  
Old 01-12-2002, 09:44 AM
Rob Simonich
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As a maker I agree that you should give credit. "Based on so and so's design" is great. Also always ask the maker, I have never turned a person down. I get upset when I see blatent rip offs however and the person dosent ask or acknowlege the original designer.
  #6  
Old 01-14-2002, 06:32 PM
lottknives
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all the speculation is nice..but i dont see big D's comment


anywhere here yet....
it is very important that when a knife inspires you
to build something close to its design that
you offer the compliments and credits to the
original maker...just as a gentelmanly professional
courtesy...there probably isnt anyone who would
find appreciation of their work offensive..as long
as its kept in its place...direct knockoffs of a uniquely
created piece, especially now under the new copywrite
laws legally are a no-no...the new copywrite laws
state that your concept..idea..finished item..are your
total property..and may not be infringed even if
a copywrite hasnt been applied for... once the
idividual who owns the original has discovered
infringment..he has 30 days to notifiy the offending
party in writing..to stop infringment...if he fails to notify
within 30 days of discovery...he may loose all or a majority of protection under current law..should his
original protection rights be challenged in court...
but..once you actually make something..and then
publish it on the web..its yours 100% under law...
untill you discover infringment of it..then you are required to act... also..if the reproduction has been altered by
at least 10% in its content or design specifics..its usually considered a legal and useable copy, free to do with what you will... so if someone makes a knife..and
you copy it ..but make it overall 10% larger or smaller
or make a major design change somewhere..then
its considered a new an completly different knife...yours..
well..this is just a simple overview of whats currently
legal at the federal level...hope it gives a bit of insite to the issue...
  #7  
Old 01-15-2002, 08:32 AM
Darrel Ralph
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Re: all the speculation is nice..but i dont see big D's comm


Do you have to have a copyright first?
We offer our designs to the market with open eyes.
The whole idea here is education.
The problem with copy right is the money that you waste defending it.
To defend a TRADE dress on a folding kife kit would cost 10,000.00 - 20,000.00 . Not worth it.
The knife world is a small one. People will know.


  #8  
Old 01-15-2002, 12:59 PM
SIGGI
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Re: all the speculation is nice..but i dont see big D's comm


I think that using someone design as a basis for your work is ok, but it is just common courtesy to acknowledge where your inspiration was found. I mean all the time you see makers with Randall style knives, and while they are not copies, they are bases on a basic style conceived by a specific person. Like Darrel says defending copyright is way too expensive but it is nice to receive the complement for your work. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Bob Sigmon
  #9  
Old 01-15-2002, 02:41 PM
RNickl
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Re: all the speculation is nice..but i dont see big D's comm


I think I read this in a book and remember it was from a well known maker that said "You can copy my designs, but you can't put my name on your knife." There are a few top makers that come to mind who's knives go for well over $500 and the designs are very similar to others (copys of Loveless designs in particular). I have my own designs for my knives but would be flattered if someone wanted to copy it. That would tell me it looks good and is functional. Just my 2 cents.

Rick
  #10  
Old 01-15-2002, 06:47 PM
lottforgenbladeworks
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darryl, to answer your question


no..you do not have to have a copywrite first..the new laws say that if you design it..its yours..put the responsibility to police it on you..and give you ample
time to defend your product once you detect infringment
if you so choose...thats all...
as to going into the market with open eyes..im sure
that you do...in that you know what you produced is simply a pre-made pattern , should one
want to use it as such.. and if the occasional person does..so what..they are going to learn from
the process ..from start to finish..( and probably find out old darryl is better at it than they are! )..that just says what a gentelman and friend to novicemakers you are..
we all appreciate your efforts and products!!!

 

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