Vintage Model 14's

[Ta2bill]

[Jacknola]

Wow, good pictures, very nice Solingen-carbon blade, which I speculate was a little unusual in the later '60s, early '70s given the swing toward stainless. Heck, lots of SF friends sold their carbon blades to replacement troops and ordered stainless because of the war with rust.

Your knife is carbon of course. But one problem I had with my stainless Solingen in Vietnam was sharpening it. The small stone just wouldn't do much more than scratch up the blade. To get a decent edge I had to use a big stone at our A-camp. Also, you really couldn't put as keen an edge on the Solingen stainless regardless of effort. But then again you didn't have to fight rust appearing and growing as you looked at the blade.

Did you have the blade reconditioned? I think there might have been a slight variance in basic Solingen blade shapes through time. Might be imagination, but there seemed to be a batch of Solingens sold late '60s-early '70s with a more pronounced hump like this one. Maybe not... given the oft-stated significant individual blade finishing required at the shop.

Any Solingen shape variance probably has no relevance to the date of the finishing and sale of the knife given that the Solingen blades were delivered in (presumably) 500-unit increments. It is just interesting to observe small variations in blades through time and speculate. Note the radius of the choll. Changing the factory delivered right-angle choll seems to be something the shop often (but not always) did before shipping a Solingen.

Thanks and regards. I have another example I'll post tonight or tomorrow, whenever it arrives.

[BoBlade]

IMO the blade finish is indicative of current production and not late 60's / early 70's.

[Ta2bill]

Thanks Jacknola!

[Jacknola]

Here is another example 14 Solingen-carbon, similar to the one posted by Bill, except in much rougher, field condition. By contrast, Bill's blade is pristine. I had to have this one off E-bay on a whim. I paid too much but what the heck.

I kinda like beat up used Viet era knives. And honestly, I never have owned a Solingen Viet era carbon blade... only stainless. What is immediately evident is that the carbon Solingen blade edge is noticeably keener, even without touch up. And the knife feels lighter for some reason.













My brother initially carried a carbon blade in Vietnam and said the fight to keep rust off it was never-ending. Most Viet carbon blade 14s are not in particularly good shape so if you like pristine, a trip to the shop for a touchup is definitely warranted.

[Ta2bill]

The bad news is that I was bidding on this knife as well.....

The good news is that my high bid (if you check the bidders) was only $599.00, so I don't feel as bad as if I ran the bid up on you.

Can I can tell you this, you bought yours for less than I paid for mine!

[Jacknola]

LOL... Bill, the under-bidder missed winning that knife by exactly $10. I still paid too much ... but for some reason Viet era Solingens are bucking the trend better than other knives. Even that odd Solingen with the brass lined thong hole went for over $800...which surprised me.

I guess it is little unusual having a Solingen 14 with a lined thong hole... and the sheath and stone are nice... but I doubt the combo is original, more likely would not have been a riveted sheath. Whatever floats some people's boats... I like to think this line on this little chat board is promoting a boom in Solingen prices (among other things that "I like to think"...LOL)







Lots of historic knives seem to be coming out of the woodwork suddenly and prices are declining, proof of supply and demand, Adam Smith, and all that. I suspect small collectors are passing or liquidating and their heirs don't want their stuff. Question is... what do we want?

[Ta2bill]

You are absolutely correct about an over-abundance of old collections hitting the e-bay auction block! So much so that I do not feel the need to venture out to Atlanta this June to overpay for knives, when I can sit right here and scoop up deals at my discretion. The only problem is that I can't buy them all! lol

[Jacknola]

I'm running out of general Vintage Model 14 subjects to discuss... but I've not seen this addressed. I thought there was a time period that the shop put extra long guards on M-14s. Now I'm not so sure it wasn't individual variation.

The picture below shows the shape and length of the guards of six Vietnam era Model 14s, ranging in age from about 1965-1970 or so. They are in no particular order... but what is apparent is the differences in length, width, even shape of these guards. I had thought there was a shop M-14 standard size and shape guard used. But I was thinking machine-made, not hand made. To make a M-14 guard, it looks like the knife-maker just sawed off a piece of brass, more or less close to the right length, and then shaped it and used it. Lots of minor variance was the result.





The picture below is of the knives appearing in the picture above, in the same oder so that you can tell what knife was associated with what guard.





I don't know whether the guard was standardized later. Given the movement of the shop toward more systems approach, I would guess it was.. but during the Vietnam War era, M-14 guards were apparently delightfully ad hoc.

[BoBlade]

Originally Posted by BoBlade

IMO the blade finish is indicative of current production and not late 60's / early 70's.

To clarify: From the pics, it seems that the blade was "shop cleaned" at some point in time in it's life, as the finished surfaces on knives from the 60's (or even a little later) did not have "styrations". Rather, just very fine linear polishing lines. Many times it's very hard to arrive at a definitive conclusion from just photos. Even with the knife in hand it is sometimes difficult.

[Ta2bill]

Originally Posted by BoBlade

To clarify: From the pics, it seems that the blade was "shop cleaned" at some point in time in it's life, as the finished surfaces on knives from the 60's (or even a little later) did not have "styrations". Rather, just very fine linear polishing lines. Many times it's very hard to arrive at a definitive conclusion from just photos. Even with the knife in hand it is sometimes difficult.

That is a possibility, but the shop does not recondition old scabbards, and the one which belongs to this particular 14 is just as clean as the knife is itself.

[BoBlade]

10-4, Bill. A sheath is a good indicator if a knife has been shop cleaned. Just not a guarantee. In any event, a great knife and sheath.

[Ta2bill]

Thank you Ron. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[BoBlade]

My pleasure, Bill. While I have you: Thanks for helping to keep this forum alive. It's appreciated by all the moderators.

[Jacknola]

TaBill initiated a conversation about a counterfeit Randall 14 in another line. It spawned some good discussion about Solingen logo, etched logos, etc., that are of interest beyond the specifics of the counterfeit knife.

I am copying that conversation into this line to preserve the M-14 logo discussion (if someone searches in the future).

04-16-2016, 07:23 PM by Jacknola

The seller has acknowledge (a knife advertised on E-bay) may be a copy. However....

I am struggling to identify the markers that ID this as counterfeit. Stamp LOOKs good (see below), dimensions, construction look good, hilt and the brown Micarta look good, screws look good. If this was an early re-handled Tenite it might be believable, but with the perfect condition I would wonder what would cause a re-handle. So could it have been a special order early 1960-62 before filling the Micarta holes, or an overlooked blade finished in 1963-4? I've never seen a pristine grind on an early '60s 14 so can't fall back on that, though the vertical grind lines look a little funky. If this is counterfeit it is remarkable.

First two pictures compare the etched logo (Bill's 1970 12-9) and the logo from the subject 14. The "cross" shape of the hilts of the scimitars is correct for a stamp in the 14...wish I had an etched Orlando logo from early 60s as the thickness of the scimitars is a little different. Also the orientation of Bill's is "type 2" and the 14 is "type 1," which I don't know if applies to etched logos. The shape of the "O" is certainly correct however.

Whoever etched this blade had access to a pantograph image, darn close to Randall's, and also access to the chemical etching bath process. Quite amazing.





Here are more pictures from the subject 14. What is it that is obviously counterfeit? Is it just the one-off nature of the knife?