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Randall Knives Forum Discuss Randall Knives |
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#1
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Bo's First Stainless Steel Knives
For future reference to anyone interested in these, I will give you some background on this style of knife.
Bo made his very first purchase order of 3/4" round stainless steel bar stock on Dec. 31, 1938 per records found and verified by Bob Gaddis, in his magnificent reference book "RANDALL MADE KNIVES, THE HISTORY OF THE MAN AND HIS BLADES" to build what he was calling his new "Fish or Bar" knife. "Fish" because of the saltwater application, and "Bar" because of the bottle opener and stainless steel. This knife was first advertised in his first RMK catalog dated December 1940. He described them as "Surgical Stainless Steel". Soon afterwards, as most already know, America entered into WWII, and virtually ALL Randall Made Knives focus was shifted to supplying all branches of military with high quality fighting knives. Very few knives were being made at this time for the casual "fisherman or bartender" during this period. Needless to say, these are extremely rare and a valuable part of early Randall history! Between similar knives that I have seen first hand, in person, and photographs of a few others, I would feel comfortable saying that maybe less than twenty are around? Or at least accounted for. According to more of Bob Gaddis' records finding, this knife was discontinued by "Mid 45", coinciding with the end of the war. The "Fish & Bar" knife would be replaced in 1948 by the "Saltwater Fisherman and Household Utility" knife. Soooo..... bottom line, as Tattoo see's it, IF any were made, they would virtually ALL specialty made military applications after mid 1942, period. I don't believe many bartenders were buying Randall Made bottle openers during the war...... Last edited by Ta2bill; 08-20-2016 at 01:37 PM. |
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#3
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The best insight about these knives can be found in Bob Gaddis' book. There are also 4 of them side by side in the Randall museum, and as I have stated elsewhere, I have actually held the only other one around, that one being owned by long time Randall collector and expert, John Cheek. There are no other records or knives accounted for to compare, other than a few pictures. It only stands to reason that these were probably only produced between 39/42.
Last edited by Ta2bill; 08-20-2016 at 01:38 PM. |
#4
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Ffor some reason I too encountered difficulty in reorienting the pictures. I copied, reoriented, re-sized on my computer using "Paint" then uploaded onto photobucket... which program promptly flipped the pictures back to longitude? Never has that happened. I then edited within the photobucket program and finally got them right... quite a hassle.
I need to walk you through posting using photobucket. It will simplify your life and allow pictures to be posted in multiple forums. Feel free to call me some evening and I can do it over the phone. Nice knife and I agree they were likely often used DT military. Last edited by Jacknola; 07-25-2016 at 09:19 PM. |
#5
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Don't worry about the peanut gallery. I've got antidotal evidence that General Gavin WWII was the originator of the parachutist/Randall knife connection, which later morphed into Special Forces/Randall. Lots of junior officers such as later General Singlaub bought Randalls in WWII because of General Gavin. It was a different time before on-line people made a career of denigrating everyone ... and their knives.
What the Gavin example indicates is that a charismatic leader in WWII was copied. If the creator of the UDT carried that knife, I consider it likely that more than a few of his men wanted one too. And like the airborne, what else were they going to spend their extra dollars on? Furthermore, that "bottle opener" could have been of use for crimping and breaking barbed wire or commo wire, if combined with the right type sheath... which could have made that knife more desirable for UDT. What is sad is for someone to declare those knives were just fish and bar knives yet not offer one shred of proof or one example. Thing is, the only documented knife of that type was apparently used by UDT. Why is it that all the other undocumented ones were only "found in a tackle box" and couldn't have been used by UDT? Furthermore, there is a LOT of proof WWII combat knives were used for civilian purposes after the war. So what use would an ex-UDT knife have been put to? Ever wonder why fewer and fewer people give a rats about old Randalls? Why does someone feel impelled to just be nasty? Last edited by Jacknola; 07-25-2016 at 11:02 PM. |
#6
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Right on.......
.I wonder how long Bo would have been in the knife making business using Government mandated materials to make barware............hmmmm......... And I guess there wasn't much of a need for bottle openers after Mid-1945, when he stopped producing them..... WHO KNEW???? lol But I'm no..........EXPERT! Last edited by Ta2bill; 07-25-2016 at 10:02 PM. |
#7
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Who is this "gentleman"? Would his initials be J.D.?
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#8
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Rick......................lol
But I have a question...... Does anybody have proof that Sasquatch ever carried a knife designed by Doug Kenefick? |
#9
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Good one Bill!! ...
Hmmmmmm....good thing I have such a great sense of humor, otherwise I would have to take offense to this comment. I'm sure there was no malice against my comment on the "other" forum regarding the way Bo, Gary, Jason, Michael Randall and the rest of the RMK shop decides on how to name a knife... |
#10
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No malice once so ever Sir. As I'm sure that you know, I have nothing but absolute respect for everybody that is involved with the day to day "grind" at RMK, lol.
I'm not sure which knife name that is? But I'm thinking "Fish and Bar" knife? I kind of look at it this way..... some of the names, titles, and even simple words take on an entirely different meaning today as opposed to 1938. A quick one that comes to mind is the word "gay"..... totally different meaning today than yesteryear! A "fish and bar" knife title would obviously be the first thing that would come to mind back then for a revolutionary idea and conception. But I sincerely doubt that with the onset of a world war, any man in uniform would be interested in one. (unless it was for the Officer's Club of MASH 4077) lol And as I stated elsewhere, it's highly unlikely that Bo was using government wartime stainless steel supplies for anything other than military issued knives. I don't know, to me, it is so logical, it's silly to even consider anything else. So everybody has a right to their own opinion, but not the right to try to force that opinion on somebody else. As you said earlier, the owner of a knife can call it anything they like. I guarantee that I don't call my Model 2-5" "letter openers" lol. They are much more manly titled "Boot Knives"! Have a great day Sir! Respect, TB |
#11
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Rick, He is actually speaking about Bob Hunt, and not Bob Gaddis.
Although Gaddis' literary work has come to be known as factual, Mr. Hunt was no slouch in historical aspect either. Everybody who has read about these Fish and Bar knives knows that they were called this from their inception, that is an undeniable fact. But to try to imagine that they were used to cut lemon wedges during WWII rather than to be put to good use, well......there is nothing more to say! Unfortunately, they are too rare of a sight these days, and being 75 years old, any history has been lost to time and that leaves them simply open to speculation. Thanks again Rick! Respectfully, TB |
#12
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First "Fish & Bar Knife" sold
I would guarantee that this is one of the very first "Fish and Bar" knives ever sold or purchased as described in line 4. (Rust Proof Fish Knife, $5.00) The date of this order, (12/22/38), predates Bo Randall's first order for 3/4" Stainless Steel specifically for these knives! (12/31/38). Bo was able to produce 4 knives from the sample piece of stainless steel bar that he acquired, and all 4 knives were sold to friends in Orlando. Also, the first RMK "catalog" wasn't published until the end of 1940, 2 full years after this order was submitted. These "customers" were personal friends of Bo's. They were buying Randall's before it was cool to buy Randall's! Last edited by Ta2bill; 08-10-2016 at 02:22 PM. |
#13
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Hope you stick around and enjoy this forum all of the time! This is a place to learn about all of the fascinating knives that Bo Randall made in the early years!
Last edited by Ta2bill; 08-07-2016 at 08:26 AM. |
#14
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Here is a photograph that I took at the Gator Cutlery Club Show in Jan. 2016 of the UDT Fish and Bar knife that is presently owned by John Cheek.
(And of course, the pic is positioned wrong here) |
#15
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Bill, here is a bigger reoriented picture. I can see how this SS knife would have been used in continuous salt water exposure such as UDT, especially knowing how the carbon Orlando-made blades rusted in Vietnam. In Vietnam, exposure to elements would result in a rusted blade in one-two days. Lots of work to keep from pitting. O1 steel is noted for edge holding... it is also specifically noted for its affinity to rust.
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Tags |
back, bee, blades, book, bottle opener, build, collector, fighting, fisherman, john, knife, knives, made, man, military, paint, randall, reference, simple, stainless, stainless steel, steel, tools, wwii |
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