How to tell how much a damascus knife is worth

[Leighton]

A little background on me first. I'm a sword person, and that is where my knowledge lies. So, knives are foreign to me. As is the $2200 I've seen some knives go for and the $3000 asking I've seen other knives having.
Disclaimer: Used the search button, couldn't find anything. So I'm either ridiculously bad at the search button, or I don't know what I'm searching for.

Ok, what I understand:
One of a kind items are worth a lot more than non one of a kinds. Damascus is dang hard to make. Different makers have reputations and people are willing to pay more for knives made by them. Some knives just are nicer than others.

What makes one damascus knife worth $300, another $750, another $3000?

[AwP]

I don't speak so much from experience, but I've looked around a bit here and there... the $3000 type knives, besides being very well done by well known makers, tend to have alot of valuable materials besides the damascus, like gold, silver, real gems, etc. and often involve more difficult processes then a similer knife could be made with... unless you're this guy that Les Robertson noticed on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2238154730&rd=1
I can't really explain that one.

p.s. He never actually mentioned his price, but here's a thread about one of Tai's knives that probably fall into the thousands range... http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....threadid=19232
and here's another knife that probably falls in there... http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....threadid=21424

[Leighton]

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of knives that have non precious stones and metals in them. Like these:

http://www.customknifedirectory.com/...uery=retrieval

http://www.customknifedirectory.com/...uery=retrieval

Heres a good one. Goddess of Fire. $2,200 http://www.bronksknifeworks.com/Knives_Available.htm

Ok, forget about all the above links. These ones are the kickers: http://www.knifeart.com/by-price-2000-up.html

[AwP]

I'm not too sure about the first two, the Goddess of Fire has fossilized ivory for a handle which is as valuable as gems, and the guard is described as "carved" which generally means hand done.

On your last link, a number of those do in fact have gold on them, and also there's some non-damascus knives that are just as expensive, so whatever makes the non damascus ones cost so much is probably what makes the damascus ones w/o precious materials cost so much. What exactly makes the non-damascus non-precious ones go for so much I'm not sure, name likely has to some do with it.

Part of it is also that people will price at what they can get, so if collectors drive up a certain makers prices, then they'll likely stay up after that for similer quality knives. You might try asking two folders up in Les Robertsons folder, since dealers and collectors have a better idea of aftermarket prices then makers, who often (not always) undercharge then see the knife get resold later for quite a bit more then it was originially bought for.

[hammerdownnow]

That Hendrickson intergral will bring a tear to your eye.
What is it the Harley guys say?
"If I have to explain, you would not understand"

I think if you broke it down to an hourly wage, most people would not work for that.

[Ray Rogers]

This is one small part of the price that goes with damascus knives: there are lots of kinds of damascus.

Most damascus is carbon steel but some is made with better materials than others which may mean it is also more difficult to make. 'Random pattern' is probably the simplest and least expensive damascus pattern and every beginner makes it.

'Ladder' and 'twist' patterns are much more involved to make and the execution of the pattern makes a difference. There are many other patterns that people make up and uniqeness may count for some of the better ones.

Mosaic damascus is a highly intricate and difficult material to make well and is probably the most expensive form of damascus to buy. I've seen a 12" bar go for over $500 and I'm sure there are even more expensive bars out there.

Part of the price comes from whether or not the knifemaker made his own damascus. Even though it may be difficult to produce, it's still a lot cheaper to make it (if you can) than to buy it.

Like I said, this is just a small part of the total picture.........

[RogerP]

A lot of good advice has been given to this point, and I suspect I don't have a lot to add. I have little or no experience with high end folders, but (without commenting on specific knives) if you are talking about a full-size damascus bowie from a top-tier bladesmith then you are definitely in the $2k to $3k zone, depending on the particular smith, the materials used and the source of the knife.

When shopping in this category, you really want to do your homework becasue that's a lot of coin by just about anyone's definition. Unfortunately, there's no quick way to get an idea of the the relative "value" of a knife in this segment. (Apart from soliciting the opinion of someone who is both knowledgeable and trustworthy - like Les Robertson - on a given knife). The good news is that with the vast information available to you on the internet, you can gather the necessary info. It just takes time.

There are a number of bladesmiths whose work I admire and either own or aspire to own. I "track" their knives on the 'net to get an idea of the market value of their knives. If, say, for a damascus bowie by a given maker you know 1) the maker's price; 2) a couple examples of dealers' prices; 3) a couple examples of private re-sales (from the forums or e-bay) then you have a pretty darn good idea what that knife should go for. If you have observed these prices over time, then you really have a pretty clear picture of the pricing issue.

One more observation - for the higher-end bowies I tend to work with the makers directly because that is where you are likely to get the best value (other than snapping up a low-ball re-sale). Finding a dealer that can and will sell you the knife for the maker's price is no doubt the best case scenario and an ideal combination of instant gratification and good value. That is, however, the vast exception to the rule. With many dealers, you are looking at a markup of 20 to 30 per cent. And in many cases, that's entirely fair - they run a business and have to make a profit while ovecoming not insignificant expenses of advertising, shows etc.) As long as you undertsand that you are paying that premium to "have it now" (which I have done many times) as opposed to one, two, five or more years down the road.

Cheers,

Roger

[beebee58]

I can add a little about the "Hendrickson".

E. Jay Hendrickson trained under Bill Moran, and is also one of his close friends. They live about 10-15 minites from each other.

E. Jay Hendrickson recieved his "Master" stamp in 1986 and is also on the "Board of Directors" of the Amercian Bladesmith Society.

As for his knives I would love to own one.

Too many knives, not enough money !

[hammerdownnow]

Thanks for the backround on E.J. BeeBee. Mighty fine work there.

[Jason Cutter]

There are a lot of makers and manufacturers using damascus and I think that the damascus itself is only a small issue in the price of the knife.

From what I have observed, the price of the knife involves more these issues :-

1) who made the knife ?
2) who made the Damascus ?
3) What other pricey materials are there on the knife ? (These often cost more than the damascus etc ...)
4) who you get the knife from ?

There could potentially be differences is a knife is auctioned rather than sold with a pre-determined price / set mark-up / down.

Ultimately, pricing is a delicate and difficult issue that boils down to supply and demand for MOST makers. Some charge what they charge because it makes them happy. Just my 2cents. Jason.

[Geno]

I specialize in cable damascus, but there is a big difference in damascus and how much time is involved.
I can go from raw cable to a forged blade in a couple of hours, but the composite blades average 5-20 hours each to make, so the price is a lot more.
Time, experience, and talent levels are what you are paying for.
Just about anyone here can produce cable damascus, yet I see no one trying to duplicate those composite blades yet.Wonder why? I don't!
It is easier to purchase one from me made up rather than to make years of mistakes to make your own.
Those prices come with"dues paid"names.

Materials will always be a fraction of the worth of the knife.
Adding fancy materials doesn't make the knife worth more, it just cost more because of the expense of the materials.
Mammoth ivory on a mediocre knife is just a fancy knife that will always be mediocre.A quality knife with plain materials will always be a good knife with minimum trimmings.The balance HAS to be there for the word"WORTH" to come into play.

Next thought...
People often come to me when all others have turned down the order. I like challenges to keep me sharp.
Several times I would quote something and wait for years to get that order because the customer wanted to find it cheaper, but simply could not find another maker to make it cheaper.

If the question is what makes them "worth" the price, consider what it would cost to replace the same item later. Then you find the balance of worth. Just my thoughts.
Be blessed!

[Frank J Warner]

After having been at this for a couple of years now, and having gone to a few knife shows, I think I can tell you the difference between a $3,000 damascus knife and a $300 one.

The $3000 knife is the one they're selling.

The $300 knife is the one I made.

-Frank J Warner