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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2013, 08:38 AM
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DIY Heat Treat & Quench Plate Material

Hi,

I have recently completed my heat treatment oven and ran a trial yesterday. I am satisfied that it will do the job, but the heating curve slows down above 800?C (1472?F). I have some 0.002" SS foil and the last thing I need to look at is some plates for quenching. I do not have any aluminum handy, but I do have access to two pieces of copper (electrical bus bar--going to the metals recyclers if I don't claim it). These are about 14" long by 4-1/2" wide by 1/2" thick. Will this suffice for plate quenching blades? I will be treating 1/8" to 3/16" stock.

If the copper is not good (too much heat conduction?) I'll seek out some aluminum. Thanks for your input!

Cheers,

Dan

P.S. If anyone is interested, I have detailed the construction of my oven on my blog.
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:51 AM
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That's some really large copper plates you have. Copper conducts heat faster than steel or aluminum so it should work better than aluminum. Never knew anybody who had large copper plates before so you'll have to let us know.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of plate quenching as i don't think it really works as well as oil quenching. Maybe the copper will change that but I doubt it. Of course, you probably have already realized that you'll need to grind your blades post HT in order to get a good quench with plates but I prefer to grind post HT anyway so that's not a big deal. A really good comparison of the results you get with oil and with your plates would be very informative if you have the chance to set it up and report on it ...


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Old 11-10-2013, 09:09 AM
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Hi Ray,

At my work we manufacture very large electrical equipment, 1MVA (million watt) Variable Frequency Drives packages and the like. We scrap $1000's in copper every year.

I was following some posts by Don Robinson with his step-by-step on 154CM. http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=24534
I am especially interested in the comments in that thread by RJ Martin pertaining to post grind heat treating and his results back from Crucible.

Dan
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:20 AM
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I prefer to use a couple of steel plates about 3/4" thick. They are heavier than aluminum and will straighten any bends in a blade.

Mine came from a scrap metalworking press die.

You can get scrap steel from any scrap yard. Much cheaper than buying aluminum.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:51 AM
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Maybe a silly question, does it matter how the plates are applied? If one places the envelope on plate #1, wouldn't that side be cooling before the second plate was applied creating potential for warping or I am over thinking this?


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Old 11-10-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCom View Post
Maybe a silly question, does it matter how the plates are applied? If one places the envelope on plate #1, wouldn't that side be cooling before the second plate was applied creating potential for warping or I am over thinking this?
Since stainless knife steels can be air quenched, it really doesn't matter. I remove the foil first, then quench between plates.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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I did my first heat treatment on 154CM with my DIY heat treatment oven/furnace. I made an envelope with 0.002" 304 stainless, added the piece of tissue paper as I've seen recommended. Folded and pressed the seams in my carpenter's vise. Three folds all the way around.

It took a while but it managed to climb to 1050?C (1900?F). Contrary to Don's recommendation, I followed Crucible's datasheet and went for 60 minutes.

I then a plate quench between two copper plates. The copper plates cooled the blade , cool to touch in a few minutes. Bear in mind it was just below freezing in the garage this morning. As per Don's recommendation I immediately got it into the tempering oven.

I have a couple of questions:

If the envelope was inflated like a balloon when removed from the oven, is that a good thing?

Is it typical to see some discoloration or a residue from the burning tissue?

I've never done this before, so any info is appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan


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Old 11-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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I prefer to flood my furnace with argon so I've never used foil myself but since no one else has replied I'll offer an opinion.

I don't think the balloon hurts anything, it just means the foil is air tight which is what you want. My guess is that you put too much paper inside and the gasses from the burning paper ballooned the foil. A postage stamp worth of paper would be enough and, if you can always get your foil that air tight, probably no paper at all is needed.

I would expect at least a tiny bit of discoloration ...


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Old 11-16-2013, 01:28 PM
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Hope these pics come through...


Getting up to temperature.




After heat treatment.



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Old 11-16-2013, 01:42 PM
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It's not unusual to have the envelope balloon. No problem.

Crucible doesn't know how thick or how large your load is, so they say to soak an hour in case you have a heavy piece. 30 minutes at temp. for a knife blade is plenty.

Last edited by Don Robinson; 11-16-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:37 PM
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Thanks guys. I feel like I've accomplished something today. A far cry from a gas forge.

Dan


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