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  #76  
Old 05-20-2016, 10:44 AM
505Gibbs 505Gibbs is offline
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I promise to give a good home once I receive it!


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  #77  
Old 05-20-2016, 11:42 AM
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"Gibbs," (Mike) That knife is a good get, congratulations..... it is really an unusually pristine knife. I was sorely tempted myself, but had another priority. When you get it, any discussion, additional pictures, or observations would be appreciated. I kind of like the feel of Delrin handles.. it is similar to ebony, but "cool" to the touch while ebony is "warm".. for some reason.

Just as a reminder, a core of this line is on page 2. That page has four long posts covering the following:

(1) Pictorial of what is likely the first Randall Delrin-handled knife circa about 1961;

(2) Pictorial chronology of Model-3s from late 1950s to about 1964;

(3) Pictorial chronology of Randall Delrin-handled knives from 1961-1972 or so;

(4) Discussion of the history of Delrin and its use by Randall.

This Delrin line is of course open to those that want to add, subtract, multiply, comment, opine, observe, kibitz, deny, accept, etc. Conversation breeds discovery. Regards...

Last edited by Jacknola; 05-20-2016 at 10:15 PM.
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  #78  
Old 05-24-2016, 05:52 PM
505Gibbs 505Gibbs is offline
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The knife is REALLY clean as far as I can see!!
It has an etched logo but from the other forum I see that if the original stamp somehow got 'buffed out' a etching was used. Never heard of this before but I'm a relative novice compared to other Randall collectors and lovers.
Anything in particular you want to know - just let me know.


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  #79  
Old 05-24-2016, 10:02 PM
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Great mike. .. but other forum doesn't have the depth of discussion about etched logos that we covered here just recently. Read the pages 5 and 6 and especially page 7 of the "Vintage Modell 14" line, link here.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...t=61371&page=5

The etched logo discussion was initially about Solingen knifes, all of which had etched trademarks, but then drifted into a discussion of etched Randall-made logo...with some good stuff about when that started, etc.

You might want to research how an etched knife blade is created. It is quite interesting and I suspect many do not know the steps involved. No one on a Randall board has described the process that I know of. I THINK I know because I visited someone who etches metal and did a fair amount of reading in the knife making discussions on this board...but Randall may have varied the process.

The Delrin handle and etched trademark on your knife are an unusual combination. How do you like the feel of Delrin in your hand? Kind of unique, slick, cool...

Last edited by Jacknola; 05-24-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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  #80  
Old 06-28-2016, 01:19 PM
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Delrin is being examined again on another site, but to date not a lot of guidance and examples have been posted, so the community is not getting a full picture. A full picture is one reason I hope this line on this site will be the "Google site" of choice for Delrin information in the future.

One question that has been raised is whether Delrin handled Randalls were ever made with less than seven spacers. This can relate to the year that Delrin ceased to be used, but is not an absolute of course. Actually there are a number of knives with less than seven spacers. Here is one, an offering from Gary Clinton?s site that he posted in 2015. Both Clinton and Zimmerman had no problems identifying a 5-spacer Delrin knife was being from the late '60s.





Here is his commentary: Very nice late 60's delrin model 3-6". The knife ,sheath and stone are all in very good condition with no issues. Blade has a name etched: R.L. Phillips SR PH. High polish with a few very minor scuffs in the blade. 3 thick, 2 thin spacers. Delrin has finger grips and some nice coloration in it. Sheath is a tight stitch Johnson with a unused two-tone stone in the pouch. Not sharpened. Delrin knives are rare and very collectible.

Here are some other Delrin handled knives without seven spacers taken from several dealer's sites including Miles' Welze and Steve Zimmerman's.

This set was identified as being late '60s by Zimmerman on his site.





This 3-6 was authenticated by Hamilton, thick red spacers.



Model 2-5 Offered by Miles Welze sometime in past.



Delrin was superceeded by paper Micarta and I think there is at least one known example of a paper Micarta "ivorite" knife that has 7-spacers. Therefore, paper Micarta probably overlapped the 5-spacer Delrin's (above). I think it is reasonable to conclude that 1972-73 was probably the last year Delrin was used by the shop, at least on a regular basis.

Last edited by Jacknola; 07-30-2017 at 02:33 PM.
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  #81  
Old 06-28-2016, 01:30 PM
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Ivorite, Delrin, paper Micarta, alternative ivory.

As we discussed early in this line, apparently the shop has used three, maybe four materials that were sometimes called ?ivorite.? In chronologic order they were Delrin, paper Micarta, possibly Alternative Ivory (don't know if this was ever called "ivorite") and the current concoction of phenolic resin (not positive about this being today's "ivorite"). It is worth briefly examining these materials as a progression.

Delrin was apparently the first material named ?ivorite? in the 1968 catalog, 19th printing. Of course we have all seen quite a few examples in this line and the history going back to 1961 of the uses of this material - which is probably the most widely used knife handle material in history (all Swiss army knives, etc.). I?ve borrowed some quotes from other well known commentators. Here is one from Sheldon, god knows from where.

6/5/07
"Delrin is a pretty rare handle material; anecdotal information contends that the Randall Shop started experimenting with Delrin sometime in early 1966, but IIRC, didn't make the product available for sale until sometime in mid 1967 (first cataloged as 'Ivorite' in mid 1968).

"Delrin was only used on a regular basis for about five years, into mid 1972....

"Hope that helps, Sheldon Wickersham"


Here are some previously posted examples.





Papter Micarta replaced Delrin by 1973 but without any identification in the catalog. It was still called ?ivorite.? Here is a comment about it from Rick Bowles interesting also because of his discussion about scrimshaw.

"5/20/09
"Ed,
"Tom is correct, the AGM is linen micarta. As Rocky discovered, "Westinghouse Micarta is a dense, durable, high-pressure plastic laminate.It is made of resin-soaked layers of paper or wood fused together under intense heat and pressure. Molecules actually merge to form an entirely new substance which is permanently useful and beautiful. The same process is used with fabric (canvas and linen) in place of paper. The resulting material has a rougher surface texture than paper micarta (ivorite). It's been my experience that, of the three, only paper micarta is suitable for scrimshaw. Trying to scratch the other two is like dragging barbed wire across a shag rug! If you are looking for a serviceable handle material that is suitable for scrimshaw and looks exactly like ivory don't forget about Alternate Ivory (AI).
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Example of material and Rick's scrimshaw work:



5/20/09

Alternative Ivory appeared in the 1990s. Here is Rick Bowles comment about A/I.

"Alternative Ivory has never been offered by the shop. After Westinghouse discontinued their paper micarta known to us as "ivorite", we experimented with several different white colored handle materials including Alternative Ivory. All of them had some drawbacks. The problem with Alternative Ivory is that it looks TOO good. With a butt cap hiding the cross section, it's very difficult for even a professional to tell that it's artificial. This is why when this material is used on a Randall a "AI" is etched next to the trademark.
You can purchase it from Masecraft.
http://www.masecraftsupply.com/Merch...ry_Code=ALTIVB
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And here is an example of alternative ivory:





Finally, I THINK the shop now uses a phenolic resin material for ?ivorite? beginning in about 2010. Here are my comments and an example from earlier in the line. I'm not highly confident in this identification as modern RMKs are not something I've closely studied. So take this comment and example with a healthy grain of salt...

The "ivorite" offered in current catalogs, beginning about 2010?, is an option for most knives...HOWEVER, this "ivorite" is appparently not Delrin but is described by some dealers as being a white "micarta." It is also described elsewhere as being a high quality phenolic resin material such as used for billiard balls - source of information was attributed to Gary Randall. One commercial example of a common phenolic resin material is bakalite. While phenolic resins are constructed similar to micarta, they differ in some important ways.


Last edited by Jacknola; 07-28-2017 at 06:26 PM.
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  #82  
Old 06-28-2016, 05:05 PM
505Gibbs 505Gibbs is offline
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Its not a 3-6 - its actually a 7 4.5" and it resides with me!
If you want me to post other pics of the knife - let me know.


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  #83  
Old 06-28-2016, 06:41 PM
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Mike I think everyone would love to see more of that authenticated knife. In addition to the handle, the spacers are also of great interest. The more examples and pictures the better. And if you have more Delrin handled knives this is the place to exhibit them for posterity. If I can help post, let me know. Regards.
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  #84  
Old 06-29-2016, 06:47 AM
505Gibbs 505Gibbs is offline
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Let's see if I can get this right!
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  #85  
Old 07-09-2016, 11:06 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Jack,

If one were to guess the rarest Delrin handled Randall, a good candidate would be a Model 1 (You mentioned you've only seen two: Yours and the one in Mitchell's collection). There is also the anecdotal report that Randall refused to handle a Model 1 in Delrin. Then you add an option of finger grooves (You've only seen one - a Model 11). Then add another option of sawteeth (Rare for Vietnam era APFK's) and wellah!:

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  #86  
Old 07-09-2016, 02:30 PM
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What the? Wow, I agree this is amazing. Not fair to just throw it up there. We need some details. Ron if this is yours we need to talk. Love it, late 1960s. Great...

Correction... Gary Clinton's knife shown a couple of posts above has finger grips... so that makes two. But both have very shallow indentions, so I think that Delrin was difficult to shape with a belt because of the melting temp.

Mike, thanks for the pictures of the 7-4 1/2. The Delrin handle looks great on the smaller knife. That is an impressive example of the genre. Thanks.

Last edited by Jacknola; 07-10-2016 at 08:45 PM.
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  #87  
Old 07-09-2016, 02:53 PM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Magnificent knife Ron! Just when you think it can't get any better........
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  #88  
Old 07-10-2016, 03:39 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Jack,

I agree: It was a rotten thing to do! I just couldn't help myself. Yes, I got lucky and yes we can talk.
10-4 on the finger grooves. The grooves on Gary Clinton's knife are primarily on the side while mine are on the bottom. I wonder if the difference is the person grinding or ?

Bill,

Thanks very much!

Best,

Last edited by BoBlade; 07-10-2016 at 09:45 AM.
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  #89  
Old 09-06-2016, 10:01 AM
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Because of Ron's kindness this 1-6 unique knife has found a home amid its Delrin-handled brethren. And it really is unique given the combination of Delrin handle, finger grips, seven-spacers, model 1 with sawteeth, from the Vietnam era. Notice the oddity of punched holes in the "A" type sheath belt loop. This is probably the coolest RMK I have.

Note: it is very hard to get the color and texture of Delrin to be accurately represented in these photos. The contrast washes out the dull-translucent, pale-yellowish-tinged color and makes the texture appear smoother than it actually is.









These next pictures are of the group. First is the knives at attention. The others are the knives and sheaths piled up casually. I'd like to mention that I have the original light-green butcher paper that accompanied the "separate-S" 1-8 and 2-8 when they were received from the shop in early 1967.






Last edited by Jacknola; 07-26-2017 at 03:37 PM.
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  #90  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:24 PM
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Congrats Jack!

That's a very rare knife joining your already cool Delrin Randall collection.

It's good of Ron to ensure that it has found a such fine home.

Cheers!

David


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