Forging brass

[ckluftinger]

I'm trying to make a hand guard - sort of sabre style - from brass. I thought I could forge it, but it crumbles as soon as it gets to the dull red stage. Can brass be forged?

[Crex]

Depends on the alloys that make up the brass. Some will some won't. Be careful and fully ventilated when heating/grinding unknown brass/bronze some contain zinc.

[Ray Rogers]

Forging brass would require extreme control of the temperature since it melts at about 1000 F. If you are trying to make a basket style guard then use brass rod and braze it together.

BTW, you probably now have melted brass sitting in the bottom of your forge. Get it out of there before you use the forge for steel again. The brass will vaporize and create some noxious gasses you don't want to breathe and some people say that those gasses will interfere with welding steel .....

[ckluftinger]

Good advice. I didn't heat it enough to melt, but I will clean out the forge anyway. So, is brass then mostly "cold-forged"? It does bend easier when heated to just a pale straw color, but it's not pliable enough to make tight curls. I'll have to play with it. The cautionary advice is well taken though, thank you.

[Ray Rogers]

For the most part, I don't think brass is forged at all. The common methods for shaping brass are casting and brazing. Of course, simpler shapes can be cut, ground, or stamped ....

[ranger1]

I forged the guard for my D-guard Bowie. I heated the brass to 450deg F and quenched in water this seemed to soften the brass. Then forged it cold. It seemed to work harden after a while and get stiff. When this happens just heat and quench again. Go slow. Don't try and move too much material at one time.

[Doug Lester]

Andy is right when he says that the brass will work harden. If it is like copper, it won't take much work to harden it so anneal often or you work will break. My references state to heat brass to a bright red color and air cool but if Andy's had good results with a water quench, I can't argue with it.

Doug

[ckluftinger]

That's good advice. Andy, it's actually your d-guard that inspired me. i haven't tried these two techniques, but I will.
Thanks!

[ranger1]

Doug,
Maybe it was the brass I was useing. I tryed heating and air cooling the brass would crack, kinda like green wood. Chris you may want to try a couple small pieces. Try different heat and cooling cycles till you get it to work for you. Copper content in the Brass can make it act differently.

[Doug Lester]

Yes, it could be the ratio of the zinc and the copper can make a big difference in the way that it's handled. Plus there are things that are called brass that are not strickly an alloy of zinc and copper. Some are more like bronzes with a tin content.

Doug

[ckluftinger]

Since I bought it from a metal dealer and not scrap, I actually know what it is. It's C360 with 60 to 63% copper, 35.5% zinc, .35% iron and 2.5 to 3.7% lead. it is said to be the best choice for milling and machining, excellent for soldering, fair for bazing and fair for both hot and cold working. I just need to figure out what their definition of "fair" is.

[B.Finnigan]

Just a side note if you ever try forging bronze I have had good luck with aluminum bronze. Silicon and phosphor likes to crack even when consistently annealed.

Most of my brass, copper and bronze guards I cast from scrap into a flat ingot. The ingot comes out real close to looking like a guard and a few times I just slotted it as is for older/ancient style knives.

I use an induction forge to melt non-ferrous (and ferrous) metals and have never had a problem with the fumes. And with an induction forge you are right there within 1 1/2' - 2' of the crucible. I wonder how many people will never play around with melting and casting brass or bronze because of the over hyped postings about zinc fumes.

If you are casting guards and pommels you are only melting 1-2 oz at the most. Just use adequate ventilation which you should anyway to protect you from CO poisoning. You should be far more concerned with that since you can't see or smell it. And it's present any time you have your forge running. Common sense exists somewhere in between stupidity and not doing it at all.

The two minute copper guard blank from scrap. I have people giving me brass and copper scrap all the time so it makes sense to use it given how spendy it is to buy it new. These blanks also cold hammer real well.



A small graphite crucible for blanks is easy to make. You don't even need a mold since the surface tension naturally pulls it into shape. And you can do the same thing in a gas forge it will jsut take a bit longer.