High Performance Finish

[Aaron Banger]

hello, in the future, I would like to make some high performance tactical style knives. But since my blades will be mostly forged carbon steel, I want to use a coating to coat my knives. I have heard about Gun Kote, parkerizing, etc. I have also heard about black oxide coatings. Has anyone tried that? But could people that have tried some of these testify for or against these coatings. i would just hate to sell a carbon steel knife to a person that will really rely on it, and then have that person come back with it super rusted. Thank You for all your insight.

[Frank Niro]

Aaron, are you now making knives and and are some of them tacticals, and why do you want to use carbon steel instead of stainless. A little more information and pictures if you can send them will certainly help you get answers.To build "high performance taticals" can often mean months of work to get the results. That's okay but where are you now in the knife making? Frank

[DiamondG Knives]

A couple of views on carbon blades for military/issue:

1.) Most operators will take care of their equipment. A non reflective finish such a glass bead blasting then a good coat of oil is surprisingly a good treatment! As said most operators will take the time to maintain their equipment.

2.) If a coating is required, what will it look like after heavy use? Any coating that will give you X amount of mils thickness will be scraped off eventually. Id suggest a blued type finish, or parkerizing. (haven't tried gun coat so I cannot comment on it) I have heard good comments from a TN maker that is using a process called "Carbon Boron" but again I haven't tried it. Just remember, the more high tech something is, the greater chance it has to fail in the real world.

Just my $0.02

God Bless
Mike

[DaveRuhlig]

Aaron-

This is a set I did with Gun Kote that spent some time in Iraq. Gun Kote is awesome, but as stated it will wear over time especially in a tight kydex sheath.



This is another knife I did with just a deep etch and oil.



Like Mike said, the majority of people who would buy/use this type of knife will know how to take care of it. I use carbon steel for just about everything that doesn't see much time in salt water.
-dr

[Aaron Banger]

Thanks for all the insight. I want to forge my knives from carbon steel, Frank, because the grain in the steel is all in place and will prolong the length of the current edge. I would not want someone who is going to use it have anything less than the best I can do. But, in at the same time it makes sense to use stainless for a marine or someone in a similar position. Dave, when you say deep etch and oil, I assume you mean acid etch, but what kind of oil? -Aaron

[DaveRuhlig]

Originally Posted by Aaron Banger

Dave, when you say deep etch and oil, I assume you mean acid etch, but what kind of oil? -Aaron

Yes, I etch in ferric. After the etch I wash & dry the blade, spray with WD40 and "scrub" the oil in. The scrubbung probably doesn't add anything to the finnish, but I want to make sure I get oil in all of my newly created microscopic pits in the blade.
-dr

[Aaron Banger]

In your opinion, which is the most durable? Acid or gun kote? Do you apply WD40 to gun kote as well?

[DaveRuhlig]

I think gun kote is much more durable and requires less maintenance, but like Mike said above, all will scratch and wear eventually. Depending on the knife/ handle material I will either oil the whole thing or put a coat of wax on the whole thing. The gun koted part probably doesn't need either initially, but it can't hurt and it's good practice.
-dr

[DiamondG Knives]

Dave
On your etch and oil finish, are you just doing a prolonged soak in Fc? That blade looks really nice. Do you find that the etched finish is evenly distributed across the blade?

Again great looking knife and finish.
Thanks for posting.

God Bless
Mike

[DaveRuhlig]

Mike-
I guess I do a fairly long etch in Fc compared to most. This knife probably had a 3-4 minute soak in 50/50 Fc & distilled water. I check it every 45 seconds/minute for progress. As far as the even distribution of the etch, I use a little trick that I'm hesitant to post because it's probably not the smartest thing in the world. Here goes anyway... at least twice during the etch I pull the blade out and scrub in the Fc with a green scotchbrite pad. Of course I use gloves, glasses, etc., etc. safety equipment - (for any newbies reading this please be VERY CAREFUL, Ferric Chloride is an acid and can be nasty stuff!!). I don't know if this really makes any difference, but it seems to come out fairly well and seems to be more consistant than just dipping it.
-dr

[DiamondG Knives]

Well Dave as the Safety Manager for our company I see your point!

But with the proper safety precautions and PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) you should be able to do it safely.

Had to throw that in!

I too do the scrub when doing damascus, seems to remove the oxide buildup and allow fresh Fc to bite.

That finish almost looks like its blued or Parkerized. I really like it. Does it seem to be a fairly durable finish?

God Bless
Mike

PS

A note on Feric Chloride.

While this may appear to be a milder acid, it is a VERY strong Chemical! Keep it away from any of your good tools!

I made a really nice PVC tube type container for mine. I came back from a job to find that the glue on the cap had failed and all the Fc was in a puddle on the floor. And ALL my steel tools were covered in rust! Bands saw blades, knife steel , tools everything! Costly mistake to be sure! Also Use goggles as a minimum when handling this acid! Goggles and a face shield would be better!

And I would suggest keeping this acid OUTSIDE of your shop!!!

[Aaron Banger]

Is it really necessary to sandblast before applying the gunkote?

[DaveRuhlig]

Mike-
The finish is pretty durable in that it seems to keep the rust away. It does scratch pretty easily, but I usually use this finnish on knives like this that spend most of their time chopping veggies around the camp site. Any scratches are easily "re-blackened" after cutting a few potatoes or tomatoes.

Aaron-
No, no need to sandblast (in my experience) just take it 400 grit and make sure it's REALLY clean. All oil, including from your hands, has to be removed.

-dr

[Gary Mulkey]

Originally Posted by DiamondG Knives

Well Dave as the Safety Manager for our company I see your point!



A note on Feric Chloride.

While this may appear to be a milder acid, it is a VERY strong Chemical! Keep it away from any of your good tools!

I made a really nice PVC tube type container for mine. I came back from a job to find that the glue on the cap had failed and all the Fc was in a puddle on the floor. And ALL my steel tools were covered in rust! Bands saw blades, knife steel , tools everything! Costly mistake to be sure! Also Use goggles as a minimum when handling this acid! Goggles and a face shield would be better!

And I would suggest keeping this acid OUTSIDE of your shop!!!

Ferric Chloride isn't an acid but rather a corrosive salt. I mention this only so you won't try to neutralize it like an acid.

Gary

[DiamondG Knives]

Good Point Gary. I am not sure on the chemistry here, but knowing what will neutralize it in case of an accident , or for general use would be a great idea!!

God Bless
Mike