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The Damascus Forum The art and study of Damascus steel making.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2014, 09:46 AM
joe D joe D is offline
 
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powder damascus

Any help: 1084 / 15n20 powder, 1/8 square can 3x3 Heated to 23-2400 for 2hrs. First squeeze in the press with squaring dies crushed can, removed can. Revealed some powder at the distal end was not yet welded, Re-heated, back to squaring dies, forged out to desired length, pattern was not what I thought, had few more cold shuts than Id like. My first try at it.
Salvaged middle to get about 2 blades with odd pattern. How much reduction should I shoot for, formula for heat time? When to shed the can and how to make the first press? Not much info Ive found thus far.
Thanks for your time.
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2014, 08:02 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Generally when "can" welding, solid pieces are included. Generally speaking, if you use only powdered materials, you'll never get enough reduction to make the entire can/billet "solid". Although it's a bit difficult to visualize, each tiny grain of powdered metal should be viewed as an individual "piece" of steel, each with all the facets requiring welding, and each grain needing to be at welding heat......even the very center ones.

OK, now that I've warped your sense of reality with that, powdered steels used within the Bladesmithing world are most often "filler" materials, used to fill the air space in "cans" that would otherwise be impossible to fill. Minimal powder is one of the keys to success.

Next, end caps.....time and experience has taught me that the "caps" on any "can", should be at least 2x as thick as the wall thickness of the square tubing used, AND the caps/lids should be place INSIDE the tubing....basically you want the lids to be about 3/8" thick, and cut them to fit INSIDE the tubing. Personally I make mine where I have to drive them in with a hammer, then MIG weld in place.

Fill the can with whatever your welding (pieces, parts, etc) to the point where the cap/lid WILL NOT extend out past the cut edge of the "can". When adding powder, add until you think it's full, then start tapping ALL the sides with a light hammer....this gets the powder into every nook and cranny. Add powder and keep tapping until the call is full, then put the cap/lid in place and tap it into place. If there are ANY air gaps around the cap/lid, fill with powder. Then MIG weld the cap in place.

Here's a key part..... When you're welding the final lid in place, have your forge going, and up to temp. When you MIG weld the last cap on, the can will be hot! You want to get it into the forge BEFORE is starts cooling down. Why? Because as the can cool, everything inside contracts, and if you have even a tiny air gap anywhere in the MIG weld, it will "suck" atmosphere into the can (oxygen), and it will cause either cold shuts, or areas that will not weld.

I run my forge at approx 2370F...and for a 3x3x6" can, once it the outside of the can looks like it's at welding temp, I leave it for 45-50 mins.

When you bring it out for the first weld (I assume you're using a forging press), take ONLY about 1/4-1/2" press at a time, rotating the can 90 degrees each time, until you "feel" it getting more solid. Sometime it takes several "heats" to get the entire weld to "set". To achieve a solid billet, you'll need at least 50% reduction....that means if your can is 3x3", you want to take it down to 1 1/2" square. Once I have a can to the size I want (size is determined by the width of billets I want out of it), the whole thing goes into the annealing tub/box (I have a 3' x2' x 18" deep metal box filled with vermiculite) and it's allowed to anneal overnight. For a can the size mentioned, it often takes 18-24 hours to cool enough to handle.

Personally, once the can is annealed/cooled, I go to my milling machine, and mill all the mild steel can off. I've also done this with a large angle grinder, but the milling machine leaves a nice true finish to work with.

From that point I either saw off "slices" to the thickness I want. or do whatever I need to do with the billet.


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Old 09-29-2014, 11:38 AM
joe D joe D is offline
 
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Very informative and to the point, Thank you for your efforts and time answering these questions. I will employ them this weekend. As a fan of your work and methods Mr Caffrey I am excited to try this again.
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:15 PM
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Fulmaduro Fulmaduro is offline
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Joe D, please post any pics you take. I plan on doing the same in the future. Thanks.

Tony Z
Kansas City, MO


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