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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:41 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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New Prototype...The "Wreck Knife"

A couple of months ago I had a visit from a local horseman. He was asking if I would be willing to develop a knife to be used primarily for quickly cutting lead ropes, lassos, and similar ropes used to tie or "work" horses and livestock with.

In this part of the world, whenever somebody has an incident with horses or other livestock, it's commonly referred to as a "wreck".

Here are some pics of a couple of Prototypes I finished up today:






"Wreck Knife" Prototype #1: 3" blade, with variable serrations for 2/3 of the blade length. Flat ground with convex edge. On this one I decided to leave the point blunt, which I hope will lessen the chances of cutting up a horse if the need arises to cut a saddle girth (strap).
I have to give credit to my wife Cindy....she walked into the shop when I was testing both knives, and I made the statement about having to put handles on them tomorrow. She suggested that I cord wrap them....and I really like it.


"Wreck Knife" Prototype #2: Same blade length (3"), but with a slimmer profile, and sharp point, The biggest difference is the serrations...the are small, with somewhat flatter points, and set up in a 2 small, 1 large configuration.

I've tested them on nylon and cotton "lead" ropes, and both go through cleanly with tension on the ropes....now to turn them over to the individual for more testing, and see which he likes best. The toughest part about this type of knife is getting the serrations "right". I spent the better part of a day, trying different combinations and sizes of serrations before I settled on these two.

On a side note, I stumbled upon a method of etching my name that I really like! Prior to doing any final finishing on the blade, I etched both on the highest setting on my "Personalizer Plus" Holding the etching pad on the stencil for a count of ten, then lifting it for a count of 5. I repeated this for a total of 10 cycles, which "burned" the mark in deeply. I then switched to the "mark" setting on the etcher, and did the same thing for 10 cycles. When I peeled off the stencil, there was a lot of "black" around the mark.....but after a light hand sanding with 600 grit, and a quickly "once over" on a super fine Scotchbrite belt, the marks came out great! Here I've been stumbling around with this etcher for over a year now.....and finally figured out how to make it work the way I want!


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Old 07-10-2011, 08:26 AM
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Good looking working/field Knives Ed, I'm sure the follow will like both.

Jim


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Old 07-11-2011, 04:24 PM
Bob Hartman Bob Hartman is offline
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Ed,
I think the blunt nose is a good idea around horses, and yourself. If the time comes that it has to be used for it's purpose things could be pretty exiting for a few seconds, and be happening pretty fast.
I'm wondering what a hook, like a gut hook on the edge side, towards the tip of the knife would do. Incase the rope, or strap didn't get cut all the way through on the first swipe. Just idle thinking. I think they are well thought out, and I bet he goes for #1.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:48 PM
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Several years ago I made two hook type knives for my mom and dad who are avid horsemen. The hook had the same protection concept as your blunt nose. And the handle was a "T" bar like a hay hook has. So far they have never had to use it.

That tooth pattern should be very vicious if needed.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:35 AM
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I delivered the prototypes to the customer on Monday. Took along some "lead" rope for him to test. He immediately liked the one with the "blunt" tip. (Which is really what I was afraid of, because that is the more difficult one to produce correctly )

I've already had a few folks contact me, asking for more information on this design....most of those are folks who are interested in using it as a "dive" knife.

I'll give the client a month or two to play with the knives, and see where it takes us.

I had considered the "gut hook" angle, and rejected it. Compared to serrations the cutting ability on tough materials like rope is very limited, and it's nearly impossible for the average person to sharpen.


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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 07-13-2011 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:31 PM
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Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
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Thumbs up Cool, Ed!

Nothing like being innovative. I also like that blunt tipped unit. There were several instances, when we used to pack into the San Juan's of S. Colo for elk, that we could have used one of these dudes. Seconding as a dive knife is a great idea too. What kind of stainless are you using and would you plan on something different for salt water use?

Hope you get a zillion orders Ed .

Dana
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:43 PM
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Gosh no Dana! Not a "zillion"! I'd settle for, oh, say.....10,000! Then I would definitely become a "mid-tech" type knifemaker.

For the "dry land" use ones the choice is going to be CPM154.....not real sure about what would be best for a dive knife application......I suspect those folks will be more interested in non-corrosion than anything....hhmmmm.??


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Old 07-13-2011, 04:16 PM
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You could retire after running 10K .

I did a quick search for dive knife steel and found a couple of instances is all. Looks like H-1 and Stellite K6 work well. Now, where you'd ever find that stuff would be another story. I know we talked about that N680 steel and figured it would be barely hardenable and probably not hold an edge too well but I've never made anything out of the one little piece I got from AKS. Chuck notes that it's supposed to be close to 154CM for edge holding....

Anyway, good going on your new line of knives. I like the name too.

Dana
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:18 PM
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I'd like to get a hold of some Stellite also for a couple specialty knives. Chuck used to carry it but I don't see it on his site. Stellite's website looks like they only sell quantity amounts. I have all the tooling to work it just need the steel.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:48 PM
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All you gotta do is buy some Talonite. and you have the same thing. All Talonite is is Stellite by another name. When Talonite first hit the market, I played with some of it....and noticed that in all ways it worked like Stellite. After some investigation, I found that the production rights for Stellite had been sold, provided it be sold under a different name.....hence Talonite.


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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 07-13-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:33 PM
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[/QUOTE]not real sure about what would be best for a dive knife application......I suspect those folks will be more interested in non-corrosion than anything....hhmmmm.??[/QUOTE]

As a former diver, or really anyone around saltwater will tell you this (you experienced it yourself when you went up fishing) some form of stainless is preferable. Nothing takes the afterglow off a enjoyable weekend than cleaning rust...

My 2cents....

J


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Old 07-14-2011, 10:05 AM
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Hi Ed!

I just got an email from AKS posting his inventory update and it was in regards to the new Vanax steel from Uddeholm. Looks like it's got a fair amount of nitrogen in it which should make it ideal for salt water. Only (big) problem is the price $$$$$! .170x11.9x1.4 $49.......ouch!

Dana
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:32 AM
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I just saw that too! (got the email update).....it looks like it would be a good steel for the purpose, but at that price the knife would be WAY above the desired "price point".

The price of these steels is just over the top....then the time and effort required for heat treating and cryo just adds to it.....by the time you pay for the steel, adding in the materials and time for the heat treat and cryo, it's a wonder that you could ever break even using some of these "newer" stainless steels.


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Old 07-14-2011, 10:05 PM
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Ed forgot to ask you in chat the other night but how did you wrap those handles?


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Old 07-15-2011, 07:23 AM
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The handles are just a quick single wrap of desert camo 550 cord. Started at the rear, and then once I got about half way, I laid another loop of cord under the wrap, continued, and at the front end, put the end of the handle cord through the loop, and pulled it underneath itself....then trimmed off the excess with a razor knife.

I did put a drop of super glue on each end...but it's under the wrap so it can't be seen or felt.


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