Pricing your knives

[Osprey Guy]

TJ-

I never felt the need to name names...but as you well know from our e-mail correspondence, I was bothered when I saw the folowing posted in the "Maker Sales"...

Hunter

Very nice Hunter

The blade is 1084 1 1/4 by 1/8 inch thick stock removal.
Edge hardenened with a softer back.
Convex ground and satin finish.
Has a visable temper line.
Guard & butt are 416 stainless soldered on.
Handle is Checham (Black Poison Wood).
Stabilized with min wax wood hardener.
Beutiful grain with this wood.
With a wax dipped 8-10 oz leather sheath hand stitched.
$100.00



Making knives is currently my hobby as well.
Like you, I'm pleased to so enjoy a hobby that pays for itself.
I agree with you... Regardless of what the field, everyone's got to pay their dues if they want recognition for their work, and the income that can come with that. But nobody said you have to wait years and years for those dues to be considered paid.

"Whatever happened to a good price for a good product?"


TJ, you got that right...So tell me please, why shouldn't you be able to charge a reasonable price for your work?
You yourself told me in your e-mail that you feel your knives are worth more than $100 ,...and yet you take exception when I strongly urge you to charge more...???


"Can a newbie charge what Bill Moran can charge? NO!

Did Bob Loveless start out charging $500 for a knife? NO!"

I never suggested you charge the same price as a Moran or Loveless knife.
I suggested that you charge a respectable price for one of your knives!

And if by chance you happen to make as good a knife as the aforementioned makers, then I would hope to see you charge the sort of price one would expect to pay for a knife of that quality, albeit without the extra charge for the Moran or Loveless name.

Do you think it's fair that knife prices have remained mostly unchanged for years and years, while all other goods around us have so dramatically increased in price?...Of course not!
My complaint is not just aimed at you, but all custom knifemakers who contribute to
this seemingly perpetual "holding down" of knife prices.

Like all of us, I want to see all knifemakers getting their due...This has to be a unified effort...and it has to start somewhere.


You enjoy being a part-time knifemaker. Your livelihood apparently does not
depend on the price you get for your knives. But there are many full-time knifemakers
who are very much dependent on those prices. Every time a maker drags those prices down, it continues to hurt
all knifemakers...Every time you put a cheap, below value price on one of your knives,
you contribute to taking money away from those whose livelihood very much depends on a fair price for their product.


Charge what you honestly think is fair...
If you make a "very fine" custom knife (as you yourself describe it),...whether you do it part-time or full time, it's absolutely
fair and reasonable to charge more than your current $100 price tag.



Dennis Greenbaum
Yeah Baby!

[Gary Mulkey]

This has been one of the better threads in a while and I applaud the veterans who have shared their experience. Something that has stuck with me that an experienced knife maker told me when I first started in this business was that I needed to have at least part of my knives priced equal to "one days wages" for the average John Doe to be interested and buy. For this reason, I try to have at least part of my table thusly priced (or at close to it as possible) with knives that don't have as much labor involved in them as the rest of the table.

I depend on a consistant monthly accounts receivable and try to offer a product to as large of a market as possible making part of my knives for the average consumer as well as part for the collector who demands something more than a "plain jane" hunter. I guess that I'm saying that some of my knives sell for 3-4 times as much as others. Do I make less per hour on the lower priced ones? No. Am I hurting my sales of higher priced knives with the sales of plainer, lower priced knives. I don't think so but would appreciate others thoughts on this.

Gary

[cactusforge]

Dennis, You are so right in saying that to put a very low price on a fine hand made custom knife is taking money out of other knife makers pockets. I believe in a level playing field and this practice will up set the field big time and is a insult to other makers who are trying to make ends meet. I have always thought that a person who dose that, likes to work for nothing. Gib

[Terry Primos]

Somehow I don't see TJ's $100 hunter having any effect on my sales. I think he's got a healthy attitude. He considers himself a newbie who's paying his dues. He knows his own limitations at his current skill level and accepts them with his head held high. He states that each knife he makes is the best he can make at that time. TJ seems to know where he is and where he eventually wants to be. His target group will be completely different from mine.

Does anyone have a problem with Ed Caffrey's $125 EBK model? I sure don't. Hell, I bought one. Ed's entry level model is not a threat to my sales either. It's not intended to be.

I guess I look at things a little differently. I don't consider myself in competition with other makers. If I have a potential customer who is looking for something in a price range that is below what I can do, or if they want something that I know is not within the parameters of what I do, I'll offer to try to help them find a maker to suit their needs at a price that suits their wallet. I don't make a sale just for the sake of a sale.

This has been a winning concept for me. Sending a customer to another maker has not hurt my sales at all. If anything, it has helped them. These same buyers will generally come back and order from me at a later date. The maker I have recommended will often reciprocate by sending another customer my way.

[fisk]

Lets all get together and Kill TJ and Greco. Yeah, thats it.
I agree with Terry here. They are making generic ceral instead of Post brand Ceral. Thats all. Different people eat different cerals. To me sounds like TJ is on the right track at this point, other variables come in to play. How much is that knife going to sell on the second market for? Where will it sell?

As to price changing in this business in the last 20 years. I dont really worry about the other guys prices, I try to make a knife and sell it, thats all. 20 years ago my highest price knife was $80.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Les Robertson
Hi Darren,

Out of that 4,000 probably less than 200 are full time.

For those who custom knives is their sole source of income, 75.

This is just an educated guess.

I'd say this is as close to accurate as we can get, Les. Its easy for someone to say they are a knifemaker, but making knives as a living is totally different than someone using it as an alternative to spendiing time with the wife and kids.

[Frank J Warner]

Ruh-Roh. Jeff is on to us. Hope the wife & kids don't read this.

-Frank J Warner

[severtecher]

Frank , as Sgt. Schultz would say, " I know Nothhhingggg".

Jerry, I will kill these people for you as soon as you send me one of your Southern Bowies . It must be done in style, yes?? I'll be watching the mail.

[TJ Smith]

Well I am glad that my monthly production (1) isn't putting a strain on the economy.
I really feel for anyone trying to make a living on the ammount of goods he can produce by himself.Thats any hand crafted items.
I spent the day with a well known knife maker and he can, and does, command a very good price for his work. He paid his dues for 14 years, but kept his day job.
Well this has been fun but I.m gonna go do some grinding.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Take Care
TJ

[fisk]

TJ, I never met you but you seem to have a good outlook. Post one of your pieces up on the display board. Good luck at the grinding.

[Keith Montgomery]

Originally posted by fisk
20 years ago my highest price knife was $80.

Jerry, you don't feel like having one of those nostalgic type sales do you? You know the ones I mean, like when a burger place sells burgers for the price they did when they first started in business. No, ####, I thought it was a pretty good idea myself.

[fisk]

Keith, better that price than what I started them out at. I first sold knives for $8.00 or a matched pair for $15. Bowies where $10. It was a few years fore I got up to $80. I have had to learn a lot but sure got a long ways to go to where I want to be.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Frank J Warner
Ruh-Roh. Jeff is on to us. Hope the wife & kids don't read this.

-Frank J Warner

**Yawns, stretches, and leans back in his chair - putting his feet up on the cracker barrel**

Yep! I remember back in the day when I first started making knives. The women would collect all the flint. Naturally, we men couldn't be bothered with all that simple stuff. We were always too worried about getting our next wooly mammoth, or maybe even a sabertooth.

Well, I'd take that flint and chip it down just right and bind a nice handle to it with some sinew. Sweet! Once in a while I'd take my knives down to the river and sell them to some folks from the other tribes. Back in those days I used to charge either a burning ember or a fish for my knives.

Yep! Life was simpler in those days.

[Ray Rogers]

I agree Jeff, those were the good old days. Then some smart aleck came along and invented bronze and suddenly flint knives just weren't good enough any more. Now, all the knuckle draggers were grunting for the latest and greatest blade material and were willing to trade two fish or even a woman to get a bronze knife! Where will it all end, I ask you? This headlong rush into advancing technology scares me. Next thing will be copper knives and before you know it somebody will invent iron and then where will we be?

We'll be standing here with our rocks in our hands, that's where!

[Don Robinson]

Interesting thread. I hadn't read this until just now. I guess I use most of everybody else's philosophies here.

I base my prices on the time, materials and supplies used for each knife.

Since I don't attend shows, I don't have a "name", and most collectors have no idea who I am.

I do have a small following, though, and some of these collectors have each purchased a dozen or more of my knives. I've even had standing orders for "the next different one".

The collectors who buy my knives are usually doctors, lawyers, and business owners. Yeah, Frank. These people appreciate quality, function, uniqueness (sp?) and beauty to their eye.

Other usually one time buyers are working class people who find their heart's desire on my web site and order one similar to it from me. Policemen, soldiers, knifenuts.

I had one of my regular customers come into my shop last year and order 5 different pocket knives for his family as Christmas gifts.

Most of the local people who buy my knives simply want something better than than they can buy at a store and are proud to have a custom made knife. I can usually read people fairly well, and these people who just want one of my knives get a special price and maybe even lay-away.

A local dr./collector won't ever pay my asking price for any thing. He simply won't buy anything unless the price is discounted to him. That applies to my work, and everything else he buys. He looks for one-of-a-kind unique items with no intention of using them, though I did make him a boxed set of steak knives one year.

Interesting here is that the Dr. I mentioned above is the only person who has ever questioned my price. He asked me once a few years ago "why is it worth that much?" Then while I steamed a minute, he went on, "Because it's one of a kind? Because of the workmanship? Or is it simply because you made it? I replied, "Because I made it." and calmed down.