Friction folder tips/tricks?

[JLaw]

Well, Christmas is coming up. I've tried and failed at a slipjoint already, but have had an increasing curiosity in friction folders as of late. I've about worked up the courage to try my hand at a few.

Does anyone out there have any advice, tips or tricks about friction folder construction???

Maybe it's best if I start off with a few things I'm wondering about...

As far as the useful life of the knife, is there any advantage to using a brass liner vs. wood slabs with no liner?

Do I need to use some sort of a screw for the pivot so that the blade can be re-tightened if need be in the future, or can I peen the pivot pin as usual and expect years of use without the blade loosening?

How about using rivots for the blade pivot, anyone tried this or know of a reason not to? http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/produ...roducts_id=957

Any advice you fine gents could offer up would be much appreciated, thank you.

JLaw

[G?rard Heutte]

Hi,

You can find some basic information for friction folders on my web site here :

http://coustil.free.fr/coutel_montage_gb.html
http://coustil.free.fr/forge_palette_gb.html
http://coustil.free.fr/atelier_bidulepliant_gb.html
http://coustil.free.fr/coutel_piemontais_gb.html
http://coustil.free.fr/coutel_axe_gb.html
http://coustil.free.fr/coutel_rondelles_gb.html


And some folders (mainly friction folders) :
http://coustil.free.fr/real_pliant_gb.html

In my opinion, liners are not useful. There no spring, so no mechanichal strength or pressure. Wood is strong enough.

To avoid blade loosening, the spacer must be exactly as wide as the blade + washers. If a bit of loosening occurs, some light hammer blows will solve the problem...

I hope this helps.

[JLaw]

Thank you for that information, I'll study the links tonight.

Here's on of my concerns I'll express, hopefully you can put to rest my inexperienced suspicions.

My main concern about not using a liner is this...

I would assume that after a little use the metal from the blade would chisel away at the wood in the pivot areas, causing the blade to loosen up rather quickly. I assume that a friction folder will probably have to be tightened once or twice in it's lifetime, but with no liners I assumed the wear at the pivot point would be great enough to cause concern about the need to re-tighten the blade pivot frequently. What have you seen in your experience?

Keep in mind I have no experience with friction folders, I'm about done with the blade and ready to work on the handle assembly. So my knowledge of friction folders are not experienced.

One thing I see on your folders is the use of a washer behind the mushroomed area of the pivot pin. Very good idea, I like that.

Thanks again for the input, I look forward to your hearing more about your experience with no liners...

JLaw

[G?rard Heutte]

Hello,

About using a liner or not, here is some information:
- Wood will not be damaged if to flat parts are in contact even if one is wood and the other is metal. Wood will be damaged if a metal angle moves on it with pressure.
- For the same reason as above, there will be no wear (or very, very little), especially if you use Teflon washers.
- Teflon washers will make the rotation soft and smooth.
- Choose hard wood (e.g. box wood, holly wood, ebony wood, olive wood) and use it once it is dry. Seal the wood with linseed oil to avoid later shape modification.
- From my experience, friction folders need to be tightened very seldom, if the design and your working process are correct!
- I have made some friction folders that work correctly (without tightening) for years.

Washers under pivot head help a lot! They will avoid damaging the wood while making the ?mushroom?? They can be in steel or brass depending on aesthetic concern or supplying possibilities. They can be hidden by using a special homemade tool:
http://coustil.free.fr/atelier_fraise_gb.html
The drawback of hidden washers is the difficulty to disassemble the knife later as these hidden washers are usually glued. I must test it with not glued washers?
The advantage of hidden washers is to avoid the thickness on the pivot area, making the contact more pleasant.

If you want a folder easy to disassemble or to tighten, you can use a special screw (e.g. bookbinding screw) as the pivot. But I find this inappropriate for a friction folder. I prefer traditional axis for its look.

The keys for success are the same as for many folders: flat, parallel and orthogonal. Even if a friction folder is not as demanding as other sophisticated folders.

Friction folders are fun and simple, once you have made some of them!
Have a good work with a lot of pleasure!

[JLaw]

That's great info, thanks so much for posting.

JLaw

[G?rard Heutte]

You are welcome...
Please, show us the result of your work a bit later.

[JLaw]

I will share when it's done.

Folder #1 is ready for heat treat, handle material is cut to approximate size and sanded flat. Stainless pin material and more blade steel is on order, expected to be here Friday.

Only bad thing is that I'm scheduled to work 6 days a week for the next 3 to 4 weeks, and the weeknights have been late as well. Kind of puts a damper on the working time in the garage.

I'll be sure to keep you posted, I'm really enjoying this friction folder...

JLaw

[JLaw]

Wow, #1 is a booger to get together correctly. Already I've seen areas for lots and lots of improvement with #2. Working on assembly, photos will come when it's all done. May be a few days at the currect rate however!!

JLaw

[JLaw]

Hmmm, split the handle when peening. Man, that hurts. Oh well, I wasn't loving the handle anyway, maybe it's for the better.

Take two...

JLaw

[G?rard Heutte]

Hi

Sorry for this hitch? Did you insert a metal washer between the wood and the axis mushroom? Without this washer, peening creates strong constraints in the wood that can be damaged (split).

If you have some troubles for peening, you can use screws. But I find them more appropriate on ?sophisticated? folders (such as liner lock) rather than friction folders?

Good luck for you future tests !

[CWKnifeman]

One way to get around the wood splitting is touse a spinner set. Just my thoughts.
Curtis Wilson

[G?rard Heutte]

Originally Posted by CWKnifeman

One way to get around the wood splitting is touse a spinner set. Just my thoughts. Curtis Wilson

Hi Curtis,
Can you explain what is a "spinner set" ? Sorry for my poor english, but I don't know this tools. Can't find precise answer on the web...
Thank you.

[CWKnifeman]

A spinner set is sold as a one piece or a two piece set. What it does is to dome the pins, and tighten the pivot without splitting the wood. It is sort of like a dimpled nail punch that has four cuts in it to dome the pins. The two piece sets are the better ones to get, because both sides of the pin get domed at the same time. Mike (Tank) Fisher makes and sells them (mainly out of carbide) contact him at TbarK knives. The single spinners most knife suppliers carry but you cannot set both sides evenly like with the two piece set. Basically it is the same thing that Case uses to set the center pin on folders. When both sides are spinning it creates a pressure on the pivot and seate it in place. On friction folders this would be theway that I would go.
Just my two cents worth.
Curtis Wilson

[G?rard Heutte]

Hi Curtis,
Thank you for the information.
I did not know this kind of device.
Does it make "clean" mushrooms, with smooth surface ?

[CWKnifeman]

Yes it leaves the dome smooth and almost polished.
Curtis