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  #76  
Old 12-26-2004, 10:35 AM
Kevin R. Cashen Kevin R. Cashen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon cutlery
my opinion is flat grinds are superior to hollow grinds for spreading butter and such other than that i use all the grinds at one time or another depending on the future use of the knife

Brandon, I just had a look at your site, it is really nice! Curse you! I get more than a few younger folks approach me who want to know about being a knifemaker, so few I ever hear of again that I have gotten good at wishing them well and moving on. I must admit that the same was true quite a few years ago with one who came to my shop because he thought he wanted to be a knifemaker, and I remember I told him that it was a labor of love because if one didn't really love it, there would be days that it just wasn't worth it . Well what do you know! He stuck with it, and is now a knifemaker, with a web page nicer than mine! (be careful what you wish for )

Brandon, I am organizing the Great Lakes area smiths to share info better. We will be getting together a few times a year (perhaps every 2 months or so for a start) quite informally at each others shops. I am building an e-mail list to help communicate about this. I have offered to host the first get together at my shop, and you are, by far, located the closest. If you would like to be on the contact list just send me an E-mail with the words "MI Makers" in the subject.

This also goes for anybody reading this, who is within driving distance of MI.

kevin@cashenblades.com


Sorry for the side tracking, now you can all get back to sluggin it out over that superior edge .
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  #77  
Old 12-27-2004, 11:39 AM
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J.Arthur Loose J.Arthur Loose is offline
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Quote:
For me most important in knife is a DESIGN!!
What ever grind used in badly designed knife makes no difference!
Yes, I think the performance issues, being parallel rather than hierarchical, mean that aesthetics are just as valid of a reason to choose between a flat grind or a hollow one.


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  #78  
Old 01-14-2005, 01:50 PM
Dan Metsker Dan Metsker is offline
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Whew! what a thread! I'll preface by saying the following is my OPINION only. By Chronological age I'm probably up there with Chuck, Jay and Harley. Experience wise? (I'm on my own learning curve). Not kidding anybody, I haven't made as many knives as most, but, I've made more than a few. Most every maker (whether a forger or remover) is locked into their own styles that is dictated by their location, equipment, fears, aspirations, or just plain stubborn. That's okay, that's what makes us diversified. Most of my customers are not the ones that can afford the truly highend knives that the well known makers offer, they are family guys that like to go out hunting and fishing and want their own brand of "bragging rights".

I've got a buddy in Houston (he makes a few knives every year--very meticulous) his take on knives is probably universal. When he goes to the hunting camp every year for whitetail, he takes three knives. One is the "go to" knife that he uses for everything involved in skinning, etc. Well worn and very sharp! The second is his "cooking knife"--only used over the campfire to do multiple jobs involving chopping, slicing, etc. (he doesn't think of flat grind or hollow grind)-this knife just looks like a kitchen knife (but its "custom made")--then there is the THIRD knife. This one comes out after dinner, dishes done, time for cigars and bourbon. He'll get up from the campfire and go to his stash for this one. Here he comes parading to the rest of us. This boy has it all. Custom made bowie knife by a well known maker. (edge has never seen anything more than paper or maybe an occassional furring stick). This bowie is decked out with exotic looking forged steel, mokume guard, mastodon ivory grips, engraving. All this in one knife sitting in a professional sheath by another quality professional maker that is attached to a 3" concho laden belt built especially for this sheath and the bowie. As my buddy states this bowie is his "struttin' knife". Now he'll never use that knife for any utility purpose like actually cutting tinder wood, splitting the pelvis of a deer, etc. But he will (and has demonstrated) how he can quick-slice a full water bottle, or quick-slice a half empty Budweiser can, or even hang a hank of rope from a branch and slice through it in one attempt) {he watches a lot of TV}. But he will tell you all about that maker, type of steel, RC temper, length of time it took to make it and .......just how much it cost!

Point being is that there used to be parameters for knife making. Then fellas got to hearing about this 'paradigm' thing and started looking outside the box. With the advent of better communications we found that we had all found different ways of doing things, using a variety of equipment, and our customers liked that difference. It gives them "BRAGGING RIGHTS". and that gentlemen is what fuels our curiosity to try everything and to push the enevelopes of modern day conceptions or standards. So as far as I'm concerned I don't care how you grind, what kind of steel you use, how you treat it, how purdy that website is, it is suffice for me to call you brethren knife makers--Dan


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  #79  
Old 01-14-2005, 07:36 PM
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Nice comments, Dan. And and a #### good story!

Too bad this thread pushed someone too far. This was the last we heard from Jay on this forum. Someday we'll cross paths and meet. I really hope so.

(BTW, right after the ruckus I even called his phone and left a message, but no return call back. He'd apparently had enough of this. )

Lemme think of something else to push someone's buttons....! :evil :cool:

Coop


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  #80  
Old 01-14-2005, 07:46 PM
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How bout that election? hee hee. :evil


















just a joke, no replies necessary.


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  #81  
Old 01-14-2005, 11:48 PM
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Ham!

I had a roomate one year in college that was a political science major who ran for some local seat (losing badly). On election night, he got quite drunk and then made the mistake of talking to a reporter for the student newspaper. He was quoted as saying, "S*** doesn't stink unless someone stirs it up from time to time."

Now, why does that remind me of you, Hammer??


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  #82  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:23 PM
Stormcrow Stormcrow is offline
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Re: The original question - I haven't made a lot of knives, and haven't handled a lot. I've never used a hollow-ground blade (or a custom knife that I hadn't made, for that matter). I forge my blades and don't much care for the stock removal part of knifemaking. But I do read here and other forums every day to see what everyone is making.

On what I make, there are several reasons I don't do hollow grinds.

Practical: I don't have a professional-level belt grinder. My equipment (files, angle grinder, Dremel) doesn't do hollow grinds well.

Aesthetic: I usually don't much care for the looks of a knife that has obviously been ground from a bar. I usually dislike plunge cuts and ricassos for the same reason. There are some obvious stock removal blades that I really like, but most don't do that much for me. So, a hollow-ground blade is less aesthetically pleasing to me in general.

Neither practical nor aesthetic: It just never has appealed to me enough to want to give it a crack.

I think in general forging does not lend itself to hollow grinding nearly so much as it does to a flat or convex grind.


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  #83  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:34 PM
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SharpByCoop SharpByCoop is offline
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BTW, Jay Fisher gave me a call the other day. We spent a half hour talking about this and that, but I couldn't convince him to join us again. We didn't spend much time on that.

We both came away as better aquaintances and I look forward to meeting him in Vegas next week. Real voices are so much better than keystrokes. But, you knew that.

Coop


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  #84  
Old 01-21-2005, 06:16 AM
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Glad to hear that Sharp.....


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  #85  
Old 01-27-2005, 06:13 PM
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Keith Montgomery Keith Montgomery is offline
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In my opinion there is no reason for a bladesmith not to hollow grind a blade other than personal preference. As long as a the steel is forged to the point where it has attained the benefits attributed to forging (improved grain structure) then that is what is important. How it is ground after that really doesn't matter.

Some makers forge to a rough shape and then do quite a bit of grinding. This type of forging lends itself very well to hollow grinding. Other makers like to forge as close to final shape as possible. In this case it would be required that the hollows be forged into the knife rather than ground. I don't know of very many makers that do this. Jerry Fisk used to, but when I asked him if he would make me a knife with forged in hollows he stated that he doesn't do that any more. It seems that he didn't find it a very enjoyable way to make a blade.

I have been discussing this topic recently with Rob Patton. He has many knives with hollow ground forged blades and doesn't understand why it is so frowned upon in certain circles.

Personally, I would love to find a bladesmith that would make me a Loveless style Big Bear subhilt, but so far have had no luck.


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