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  #1  
Old 01-16-2007, 06:16 AM
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Brett Holmes Brett Holmes is offline
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recycling paper is bad for the environment!

well who would have thought it. i was just watching a tv program where they take common place things and sort the fact from the fiction, apparently it is better for the environment to use trees rather than recycling paper because a huge percentage of the trees used for paper were planted for that purpose. they said there are 3 timer more trees around now than there were in the 1920's because we are planting them to make paper. Also there are a huge number of chemicalls used to recycle paper which leaves allot of toxic residue.
aparently the only advantage to recycling paper is that it doesnt go in to landfill.
but not recycling paper means more trees are planted which means more clean oxygen.
well i am trully shocked, seems you learn something new everyday.
aluminium cans on the other hand should be recycled because of the huge amunts or electricity needed to turn the raw ingredients in to aluminium V's just melting them and making them again.

brett


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Old 01-16-2007, 06:27 AM
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Huh, well that's a surprising tidbit.


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Old 01-16-2007, 07:39 AM
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Brett, did that show originate in North America? If not, where?

Coop


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Old 01-16-2007, 09:55 AM
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Oh, no! You've suddenly discovered that the "pop science" the mass media touts could be wrong!! Watch out! They may be coming after you!!

Environmental work is what I do for a "living". I've done work for papermills and aluminum recyclers, and just about anything else. The problem with recycling paper is not the paper itself, but the inks. We want water-proof ink on our pages and thus it is really hard to get it off for recycling. In a papermill, any paper that breaks or gets trimmed off goes back through the process for recycling - but it has no ink to get rid of. A secondary problem is that the quality of paper is directly related to the length of the fibers involved. Every time you recycle, the fibers get smaller. (Bond paper uses really long fibers, telephone books and take-out restaurant napkins use short fibers.) Glossy paper is an even bigger problem, because they mostly consist of kaolin (clay).

As for the trees, they are grown and harvested. It's no different than wheat or corn. The days when companies stripped the land of trees and moved on are long gone. (One of the reasons Theodore Roosevelt started national parks was because he had seen the devastation of the Adirondacks area of his native New York.)

Aluminum recycling does take less energy than making new aluminum, but there are some pretty significant environmental problems. The tops on aluminum cans are not aluminum, but rather an alloy of aluminum and magnesium. Chlorine is blown through the melted cans to take out the magnesium. Also, cans are coated with plastic inside and with ink on the outside. That all burns off when the cans are melted.

If we burned our waste paper, we would be "harvesting" the solar energy absorbed by trees. New trees would grow, converting the carbon dioxide from that combustion back into new wood.

I hope that this new information will help you interpret some of the other pop science BS. Next eye opener: Global warming has nothing to do with what humans are doing. It's a result of cycles that the Sun goes through. Everything you see about it in newspapers and on TV is driven by a political agenda (to make goods produced in Europe more marketable) and a financial agenda (as a "hot" topic that helps research foundations and enviromental activists get money.)


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Old 01-16-2007, 10:06 AM
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I know that there are many in this community who actually worry about the environment and do try to do the right thing with respect to it. I would ask you to do ONE THING: Always question what is actually going on with your recyled materials.

I lived in NY for a few years and we had mandated recycling of newspapers, plastic stuff, bottles and cans, etc. We had to pay extra for that required recycling and we had to separate everything out for garbage pick-up. But in my work capacity I travelled to the garbage handling facilities. There were HUGE piles of plastic jugs (for example). I asked what they did with them. The truth was that they ran out of recycle options and so they were dumping them in the landfill. Cans and bottles had a deposit fee, so any that made it to the garbage were cashed in by the garbage truck operators.

Here were all the residents, happy and content that they were doing their part for the environment, when actually they were being fleeced. No one questioned what the government was doing with their materials. Just attach the word "recycle" to the action and you can charge people extra money to do nothing.

Question government. Un-elect the swine every chance you get.


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Old 01-16-2007, 10:10 AM
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I'm very careful on which environmental agencies I back. I have no use for the Eco-Terrorists of Green Peace or of those who use scare tactics to get people to help them such as several I get ads from who send photos of skinned wolves or bloody pictures of seals. I feel the same way about animal rescue agencies. You want my money don't guilt me into it by sending me pictures of abused animals.

One of the organizations I support is the National Arbor Day Foundation. Through them I had learned about how all the paper made today is made from tree farms for that purpose and not from the cutting of old growth. Arbor Day really pushes for the working of man a nature together, not "save the whales, screw the humans." They even run their facilities from wood burning plants.

The other main one I support is Ducks Unlimited.

Years ago I saw a hand powered crank that took news papers and let you roll them into tight logs that burned quite awhile. With it they warned not to burn any of the ads or any other shiny paper. Since a lot of areas have gone to mandatory recycling these have vanished. I am not against recycling but most reputable agencies will tell you that re-use is much better than recycling.

Jim


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Old 01-16-2007, 04:47 PM
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coop, it was made in the U.S.
texasjack when you said you were in the industry i was expecting you to corect me so its good to hear that your saying the same thing. and when you think about it it makes sence, because there are huge tree farms around.
i think the figures in australia woiuld be a little different because there are still allot of old growth forests being chopped down but its nothing in numbers compared to what they used to do.

i for got to merntion that they also said that 40% of what you recycle goes in to landfill because its not cost effctive to recycle.

and dont get me started on global warming, its the biggest load of BS going around, were constantly reading about how the ice caps will melt and the whole world will flood, however there have been times in the earths history where there were no ice caps and everything still went along OK, not to mention that in the large scheem of the globe we are in an extreme heat wave at the moment because ice age is actually more common than what we have now.

brett


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Old 01-16-2007, 04:55 PM
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just checked the tv guide, the show was called
penn and tellers, bull####

brett


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  #9  
Old 01-16-2007, 04:58 PM
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ha ha ha its very funny that the forum should censor me because that was the other segment on the show they were talking about swearwords and how its stupid that we give certain words the power to offend us, and how some do gooders are trying to take away our freedom of speach by banning them.
brett


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Old 01-17-2007, 02:54 PM
Carey Quinn Carey Quinn is offline
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Hi Folks,

I really feel like beating this drum a little.

I have been involved in the pest control industry for about fifteen years and have grown to detest tree huggers and environmentalists. It is my humble opinion that they have probably caused about as much harm as they have cured, probably more. Thanks to them, California has not built any new power plants in probably 30 years and now they have bad power problems every year with no salvation in sight. Environmentalists have blocked the search for new oil, the extraction of known reserves, and the building of new refineries for decades. The result is we are dependent on foreigh supplies controlled by despots of all descriptions.

It behooves us all to be conservationists; to walk softly and replace and repair when possible. Prohibition doesn't work; not then, not now.

Just my .02. Thanks for allowing me to rant a little.

Carey


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Old 01-18-2007, 12:07 AM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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Thou hast opened the can 'o worms!

If you have taken the time to read this thread, you should read State of Fear by Michael Chrighton. If offers real numbers and research sources to this discussion.

Furthermore, if the ice caps melt, the world will not flood, it'll fall into an ice age, which man has survived before. It just gets colder. The quick explanation: Melting fresh water flows down from the poles and disrupts the salinity of water in the north atlantic which shuts down the oceanic thermal conveyor which in turn, means that warm air cannot be carried off the ocean by prevailing winds. Thus, temperatures drop dramatically. As the snow builds and ice forms, it reflects the radiation of the sun and it stays cold for a very long time until the thermal conveyor can slowly get started back up.

A wonderful documentary called Little Ice Age: Big Chill can be purchased from the History Channel's website. As a history major, I think it's the greatest history lesson ever taught across almost every area of historical study. We can credit the state of our world to this phenomenon.


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  #12  
Old 01-18-2007, 09:11 AM
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In fact, if you Google Michael Crighton's web site, you'll find a number of presentations he's done in the past few years. A good one is "Aliens Cause Global Warming".

I'm all for responsible use of our natural resources. I've seen first-hand the devastation when those resources were exploited. But I'm continually amazed at what is touted as scientific fact in the media - and then accepted as such by the public!

One good thing about knifemakers: They will recycle just about anything! Give us a few scraps of metal, wood, or bone and we'll turn it into a knife!


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