J.English & Hubers and the Bowie Brothers

[beknives]

This is my favorite Bowie Blade...The first time I ever seen this grind was during a visit to Alex Daniels shop,he was working on a excelent reproduction of the English and Hubber Bowie.I thought it was the coolest Bowie I had ever seen.After studying the grind I realized it had all the makings of the greatest Bowie Blade ever (IMO)So I asked Alex how it was ground and tried it when I got home.....To answer some of your questions..Yes it was ground on a wheel ,the wheel was a 6 foot diameter wheel thus the slight hollow grind look if this grind is not done correctly it does look like a flat grind.The ones I have done are flat ground but now I have a special; platen that has the radious of the 6 foot wheel to try.This Bowie is very light and quick in the hand and will balance perfectly.Sorry about the poor quality pic's,some of these were made a long time ago.

When talking about teh English Bowies one has to remeber that they were made for quick sells,early mass production,They were made to look really good and to be sold at a low enough price that the Americans could afford them..If you wanted a quality knife you would buy American such as Rose of NY or Price from San Fransisco or Samuel Bell or a handful of other makers here in the states.But then as now,low price sells no matter the quality (allot more poor people than rich)Of course now days we can reproduce these Bowies with qualityso that they will still be in a working order in a hundred years.

Bruce









This grind even works as a skinner,here is one I did at 5 inches

[hammerdownnow]

Thanks Bruce. Nice pics and commentary.

Sheffield Knife Grinders

[beknives]

I forgot a question...Yes the blade is double ground,but it has a difference than a dagger...The back edge is only ground far enough to leave half the blade thickness on the spine.Now this can be left thicker or thinner as needed for balance.The clip is also ground with a bevel on the original Hubber and the clip is taken all the way down to sharp.So it actually has 3 bevels.

The real reason I like this blade style is that a thicker ricasso can be used and still keep the knifes weight down,and when it is used in a slashing/cutting motion the drag from the back edge is not felt,and when thrusting the profile makes for a easy entrance and then no riccasso cut out to hang up upon removal of the blade.

Just some more of my thoughts.
Bruce

[dave Stifle]

Bruce, I really like that grind a lot. And I intend to try it myself. Where can I get a six foot stone wheel? Just kidding. Are your fittings NS? One thing I noticed in the pic of the grinders is the position they are in, they are sitting and leaning forward. Guess that's the most logical position, but I just imagined they stood and worked with the knife held at chest or eye level. Thanks for the great pics and information. by the way, one of my favorite knives is your gamblers bowie.

regards,

Dave

[hammerdownnow]

Welcome to the discussion Dave. I had a Puma Cattalog long ago that had a pic of some grinders at the Puma factory. The wheels were around 8-10 feet tall and about a foot thick. Just a cresent of it stuck out of the wall. A worker was standing up to it holding the blade and grinding at about waist level. I would like to find that pic again.

[beknives]

Grinding has been done in many ways over the years.But the English cutlery grinders started with 6 foot wet stones.And the grinding position was that the grinder laid on his stomach on a thick plank over the wheel,the grinders legs would get cold and have poor circulation and so he would train a small dog to set on the back of his legs all day to keep them warm so the circulation was good(if something would happen to the dog the grinder would bring a small child as a substitute untill another dog could be found.This was also the most dangerous of the grinding techniques,as the stones would crack and breakevery so often,when the stone would break it would hit the plank and throw the grinder in the air.They say a few would hit the tall ceiling of the factory,and what goes up must come down and most often kill the grinder or badly maim him putting him out of work for the rest of his life.

As the years went on different practices were instilled in the grinders and the factories to try and protect the workers from harm.

Dave,You will like trying this grind.I have used Brass,N/S,and steel (Damascus,wrought iron,and mild) for guards.

Bruce

[hammerdownnow]

Bruce, thanks for the cool pics and history.
While looking for more on Huber on the net I came across an old post in one of the other forums from a guy named Gary who said he had a bowie marked Huber that his dad found in a box in an old house he was paid to clean out. No one had responded to his post but he left his email as a contact. Taking a chance, I emailed him and asked for pics. He was kind enough to send a few and I cut and pasted them together. After a few emails back and forth and some help from Ed Fowler we determined that it indeed was a Huber. He then got it apraised at 10,000 dollars. The ones he sent are the best I have seen so far, but he plans to get pro shots done of the bowie and pass them along to us.

[beknives]

That is way to cool !!!!!!!
Wish I could have luck like that

When I was at the doctors office the other day I was reading "The Bowie Knife" Book about English and Huber Bowies.All the books I had read before said these were English Bowies,but this book said they were wrong,These were American made Bowies which makes them even cooler to me now.

Bruce

[hammerdownnow]

Oh yeah, American made in Phillidelphia. Click on the blue link below (sent to me to post by Ed Fowler) It has the J. English and Huber knife company history. The name of the company was "The Sheffield Works". Must be the name "English" and "Sheffield" that lead to the confusion. It says in the article, which I missed in my first couple of reads, that the company is owned by the Osborne tool company now and they make leather working tools. Most famously the head knife used by sheath makers.

http://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/huberbowie.pdf

[hammerdownnow]

The most notable thing that has come to my attention, surprisingly, is the fact that the American mades were all of high quality. Those who get to handle the antique bowies say that the Sheffield England bowies were more novelty quality. Like the Japan knives imported here after WWII and the China mades of today. This makes sense in that I read that they had hollow stamped out bolsters and butt caps filled with resin. Another clue to England just trying to cash in on the Bowie craze is the hokey etchings with patriotic American slogans. That kinda hit me like a brick....stunned me.

[Ed Fowler]

Roc. You have stated my sentiments perfectly. Most of the Sheffield stuff was for the mass market. Many bought in to it, then as now there were very few knife fighters, but it was a good market. English and Hubers were one outfit that was for real.

[hammerdownnow]

Looking at the American mades, I notice that they were made mostly by Surgical instrument makers like Chevalier, Searles, Shivley and Rose and Arms makers like Ames and Hicks. Little wonder at the quality of such weapons.

[beknives]

That is a cool document,had to save it for myself so I can read through it more later....

During the civil war the tool makers made knives for the servicemen,the way you can tell them from the southern knives is the round tool handles.Just thought I would add that ..

I have heard the English Bowies compared to our modern day Pakistan knives.Yes they had hollow bolsters and buttcaps nad were mass produced to sell to the poor people in the USA.Those that had money bought the good knives and that is why allot of them are fancier (inho)Look at the California knives,they were the most expensive knives ever produced in Amaerica and would still be today if you went by the cash from then compared to now..And they are not even considered Bowies.

My mind is wandering so I will shut up now....Dang I will be glad when the doc gets me fixed...

Bruce

[Ed Fowler]

Thanks to Hammerdown I now own an original Huber, I have no contact information for his family, but would like to let them know I appreciate his work. Any information, his actual name and city or what ever you know will be appreciated.

[MJC]

Bowie knives are still made in Sheffield. The best book on the Sheffield knife making industry is Tweedales Directory of Sheffield Cutlery Manufacturers. You can probably find better old Sheffield made Bowie knives in America than you can in the UK. Some of the descendants of the Sheffield knife makers are buying up examples of early Sheffield knives. One of the best bowie knife makers in Sheffield is Reg Cooper but he is now nearly 80 and does not make much. Examples of handmade Sheffield Bowie knives still in production are on http://www.sheffield-gb.com