building bronze

[kyle juedes]

Just for the sake of giggles: Can you take brass and aluminum and melt them together in a forge to get bronze?

Thanks,
KJ

[kyle juedes]

Actually i meant copper and aluminum, but i think that i've heard of alum-brass bornze too.

KJ

[mete]

There are various copper/aluminum alloys but making them yourself is not a good idea. BTW zinc fumes are toxic .

[Geno]

Copper, tin and zink make bronze.
Copper and zink make brass.
Tin and zink make pewter.
Hope it helps.

[hammerdownnow]

Yes but will aluminum and copper mix? Will you need zinc?

[Geno]

You might look into a nickel aluminum bronze.
I don't think you'll have much luck trying to mix al and copper.

[kyle juedes]

Well, even if it didn't mix, it would me neet to add them together and then swirl it around a little, and let it harden to get some kind of pattern. Would this work?

[kyle juedes]

If you need zinc to mix it, how did they do it "back in the day"? I mean how much zinc did they have laying around in the Dark ages? By the bay, I really don't know what i'm talking about, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

KJ

[kyle juedes]

Ok, i've posted 3 times in the last 10 minutes. Sorry i have questions! Well, 6061 aluminum, which form my under standing is one of the most common aluminums, has only .25% zinc. Would you really experience the effect from it with such a low percentage? Also, this is off-topic, but how can you heat tread 6061 with out getting zinc poisoning? Would a resperator protect agaist zinc fumes?

Thanks,
KJ

[AwP]

If I remember right, zinc poisoning is culmnitive, meaning that it stays in your body and builds up over time. That little bit might not hurt right now, but in a few years maybe you accidentally put something in the forge with zink in it, then a few years after that you want to burn the galvinization off of a pipe, then a in few years... anyhoo, I think you see my point, the less you put in your body the better because even tiny bits add up. A resporator might completely solve your problem, I'll let someone else answer about that, I'm not overly familier with them.

[george tichbour]

I would imagine that there would be some sort of flux required to keep the aluminum and copper from oxidizing during the melt process then to promote mixing given that there is such a large difference in density between the two metals.

Metal poisoning is indeed usually a cumulative situation but the body also tends to remove toxic metals through the kidneys over time as well so OSHA has posted maximum safe exposure levels for most contaminents.

[chipwit]

I've made aluminum bronze a few times in my little gas forge, and it is very easy. Just put copper and aluminum in crucible and fire away. It is good to cover the metal with borax or charcoal to protect from oxygen (esp. the Al), but I think the first time I tried I got away without any flux. I used 90% Cu and 10% Al but you can use just about any ratio you want. It comes out a brassy color but brighter, at least with the ratio I used.
Good luck-

[kyle juedes]

Would a steel tray work for a crucible? Will the two metals melt together on their own, or do you have to mix it with something?

Very useful post Chip! thanks

KJ

[chipwit]

I know that stainless steel is used for bronze, so I would guess that any steel would work, iit just won't hold up long.
If you have a 99 cent or dollar type store around, they usually sell stainless bowls, coffee creamers etc. A clay flower pot, or any kind of porcelain cup or container would work too-
Is the steel tray all you have? If you can get a cylindrical crucible it would be better because the metal can be completely covered with charcoal or borax and not get exposed to oxygen, but the tray should work. And they will melt together on their own, but adding borax helps metals to fuse.

[kyle juedes]

Where can i get my paws on some borax? Is it readily availible or do you have to special order it? With the charcoal, so you just make it into a powder or what?

Thanks,
KJ