Getting a temper line on 1095

[viper]

I am trying to get a white temper line instead of a black one on a knife i made out of 1095. The blade was finished to 800 grit then etched for 5to 10 min. When it is pulled out from the acid you can see the temp line good, but once you wipe off the acid it becomes very faint almost non existent. By the time i rub it down with polish it is gone. Anybody know what i am doing wrong.

Andy

P.S. I heat the blade to non magnetic quenched in oil and the polish i use is flitz or mothers.

[AwP]

I'm not experienced with really strong acids, but if you're using something slow like vinager then it always takes me a number of repeated etches for it to show well. Do your etch and rub off the black like you have been, but then put it back in the etch. Eventually it'll show well even after you remove the black, though you still need to be carefull polishing, if you overdo it then it will hide the line again.

[SteveS]

Andy,

I'm in the same boat and am learning this exciting part of blade making myself. I have learned what Andrew said: if you overdo it it will hide the line.

Here's some of the other stuff I've learned:

Part 1: color
A lot of the coloring is oxides left by the etch (black for ferric cloride I believe) most polishes are designed to chemically remove the oxides. So that is one part of the equation.

Part 2: exposing the 'grain' (don't know what else to call it)
Etching eats at the steel at different rates depending on carbides, grain, martensite/pearlite, carbon content.

Japanese steel is known for it's inconsistent structure and that creates lots of activity. Now a proper japanese polish does not rely on chemical reations, but rather various abrasives and methods to expose the 'grain' of the steel.

Part 3: polishing

Etching will expose differences in the steel. Stone polishing does the same. Western abrasives, 'burnish' the surface. They smear the surface material to create a shiny effect.

Part 4: hamon

The hamon simply has a different 'grain' then the rest of the blade. It's going to respond differently than the rest to etching and light abrasives. The 'white' is caused by that area not being polished, or not polished in the same way. I found this out by using an hazuya (thin uchigumori stone) I was able to make the entire blade white! You know how buffing a blade can remove the 'cloudiness' in the steel. Well this stone puts it back in!?

Now the trick is polishing the rest of the blade, but not the hamon. Or polishing in such a way that the hamon can respond differently than the other areas. Japanese polishers actually work around the hamon with tiny Jizuya pieces.

..................................
So, over polishing will remove the 'activity' or 'grain' or whatever you call it, created by the etch.

The chemicals in the polish will remove the oxides and therefore the color left by the etch.

...................................
So all that's nice information, you say, but how do you get a white hamon?

Heck if I know, I'm not there yet!!

I'm trying all sort of things. Mostly you want to do the LEAST amount of work after the etch. Avoid touching the hamon with polishes as much as possible.

I'm testing with different abrasives, such as uchigumori, rouge, polishing papers, and combinations. The trouble is, once I go too far I have to re-finish the blade, re-etch and go again.

BTW Japanese sword polishers will tell you no one method will work on every sword. You'll need a lot of experience in your back pocket.

blah, blah, blah,

Steve

[viper]

If i where to quench in water instead of oil would that make a differance or not?

Andy

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by viper

If i where to quench in water instead of oil would that make a differance or not?

Andy

Sorry that I don't know. The Japanese use water, but nothing with a carbon content has high as 1095. This one is 1070 and oil:



Steve

PS the hamon is black. Trying to decide if I want to whiten it or leave it.

[Terry_Dodson]

try Mother's Mag polish, i have used it to get white Hamons on 1080/1095 i found it at the auto parts store and walmart.

p.s. - only polish in one direction, down the legnth of the blade.

[McAhron]

i experamented with 1095 and water and you will crack at least 50% of the blades,so i would not recomend it,oil and 1095 gives outstanding hamons so a faster quench realy isnt needed,1095 does need to be quenched in less than a second though so keep the quench medium close to the forge and quench immeadiatley for great results.

[Don Halter]

When i first pull stuff out of the echant, the hamon will appear black. Once it's rubbed with 1000 or 1500 grit paper, the upper section will begin to highly polish (making it look darker), the hamon will turn white and the lower section kind of a satin polished look.

http://www.100megsfree3.com/kragaxe/.../Japanese.html
Half way down is one I did in 1095/water quenched. In this pic, it hasn't gone through the entire polishing cycle yet, but the hamon is already a white color.

I first polish to mirror polish. Next, I rub on ferric chloride (full strength) with a dampened rag, let sit 10-15 seconds, then wipe off and rinse. I then wet sand with 1000 grit wet/dry paper. I repeat about 4-5 times and let the paper dry out on the last time and keep rubbing. The blade will really start to shine with a very visible hamon.

[viper]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Don do you not use any polish like the flitz or mothers? Also some where i read of somebody using satanite does it make a better temper line by using it instead of some other brand of refractory cement.

Andy

[Don Halter]

I've used a paste silver polish before to bring out the design. I didn't see much difference between using that and just using ultrafine grit paper (1500+ grit). Try a few different things and see how it works for you.

I've used satanite as well as a few other custom mixes with satanite as a base. You just have to mess around with whatever you decide to go with and see how you need to manipulate it to get the design you want. the big thing is finding a mix that stays on the steel, even in very thin layers. I use a refractory mortar made for "sticking" to metal as an additive to satanite to help with this.