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  #1  
Old 03-05-2008, 03:54 PM
doublearrow doublearrow is offline
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argon gas

I've been contemplating building a heat treat oven. I noticed with the paragon's you can get a gas valve to put in argon gas for a sheilding gas or to displace the oxygen. I found a thread where Ray Rogers commented that it wouldn't be hard to do which I agree. I guess where I'm confused is one of the hazards with argon gas is that it will become pressurized with extreme heat. After you built a valve to put the gas in the oven how do you vent it so to speak so that it does not become essentially a bomb? On the paragons does it just fill up the oven once or does the argon gas continually flow in one side of the oven and out another spot?
As always any help is appreciated. Thanks Ryan


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Old 03-05-2008, 04:08 PM
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Harry Mathews Harry Mathews is offline
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We purchased an oven from Paragon with the Argon gas option. It arrived with no instructions on how to use the gas. We called Paragon and asked them for some help and they replied that they did not provide any information on the use of the gas option. They are right, they didn't and they haven't provided any information or help at all. We haven't had much luck finding out anything yet. It sure would be a help if someone that is using one of these ovens with argon gas attachment would answer.


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Old 03-05-2008, 04:10 PM
doublearrow doublearrow is offline
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I've been dead set on paragon for a couple of years but I think it was your post I found in a search that said something similar. It's bad enough to have bad customer service, but for them to not even KNOW how to operate it baffles me. That made me consider building my own. If I find anything out I'll let you know.
Edited to add I'm not trying to bash paragon but this is not the only post concering the argon gas option and it is just what made me consider building my own.


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Last edited by doublearrow; 03-05-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:33 PM
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Harry Mathews Harry Mathews is offline
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Charlie and I have been using an Evenheat Rampmaster II for five years and it is a good oven. We decided to try Paragon because we wanted an oven longer than the Evenheat we are using currently and it had the gas option. We find it very strange that they didn't mind selling us the option of gas injection and now refuse to provide instructions on it's use. I am not trying to slam Paragon, they make a good oven. I am just trying to find out how to use what they sold us. I don't have time to experiment with a bunch of different gas regulators and pressure settings on sample blades to see if it works or not.


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Old 03-05-2008, 04:41 PM
plain ol Bill plain ol Bill is offline
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To top it off the flowmeter Paragon provides with this option is not a high pressure flowmeter you hook up direct to a bottle. This further complicates attempting to use the argon gas in the furnace. I tried the argon in mine and went back to using foil wraps in a hurry. Save your money guys and stick with foil.


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Old 03-05-2008, 06:14 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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They didn't provide any instruction with mine either but it wasn't difficult to figure out what works. It's very easy, in fact.

First, I went on eBay and bought an ordinary argon regulator to use on the tank, (brand new, pretty cheap). This is the part needed to handle the high pressure gas coming from the tank. All this regulator does is reduce the pressure to some lower amount suitable to feed into the flow controller provided by Paragon. I set mine at about 30 psi.

Then the flow meter - which only feeds gas during the time the heating elements are turned on - is set at about 7 cu feet per minute (I think that's the way that meter reads, anyway the little steel ball sits between 7 and 10). The exact amount you'll need will depend on the size of your furnace and how gas tight it is. The Paragon is not anywhere near being gas tight. There is no chance of an explosion due to gas pressure build up. Even if the gas could be contained you've got the regulator set to 30 psi. But, the gas leaks out darned near as fast as it goes in. I've sealed up my door with some kao wool to help with that. The gas leaks out through the bricks and sheet metal seams quite easily.

At those settings, I get very little scale and my 164 cu ft bottles last about a year. Obviously, if you heat treat more than I do your mileage may vary. Frankly, except for the economics of buying the gas, it doesn't matter where you set your pressures. It can't blow up and too much gas just means it's wasted, it doesn't affect anything else to any significant degree.

Argon is not a gas that you can breathe so the shop where you use the furnace needs to be exceptionally well ventilated. Other than that, there's not much to worry about with it. I never used foil and I doubt the results with the gas are any better but it has to be a whole lot simpler to handle if you're all thumbs like me...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 03-05-2008 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:51 PM
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Thanks for all the information. We will give it a shot and see how it goes.


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  #8  
Old 03-16-2008, 10:11 PM
raker raker is offline
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Argon

Argon is heavier than air. It will displace air in the oven at the bottom first. Kind of like filling something up with water except you can't see it. All the argon flow meters that I have seen had a vertical tube that indicated the volumn of gas being discharged. 7 to 10 cubic feet per minute ins't very much. All you need to do is to maintain a level of argon in the oven above the knives you are heat treating. Of course, the more air tight the oven, the less argon you will need to use. The only place that the argon would really be dangerous would be in the basement or similar structure that the only vent would be above your head. If it can't go anywhere, it will build up and if there was a leak in the bottle, you could come down the stairs and stay a long time, at least till they found you. I am not trying to be scary about it, just remember that "ARGON IS HEAVIER THAN AIR" and you can figure out the rest. It is an inert gas so it doesn't support combustion or will burn with air.
On my paragon, the only place that it could leak out is at the door so it shouldn't take much gas to cover the knives. If you REALLY wanted to save on argon, make a small container and hook the argon to that. That would only take about 2 cu ft per min or less. The top could be open as the gas would only run out when it got full.
I hope this has helped and that you get it running.


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