Hidden tang

[PA Graves]

What is the best way to cut the channel for a hidden tang blade?

[Paul3]

I'm very new at this compared to the others that will answer this But I always just drilld a hole.:confused:

[LRB]

I like as wide of a tang as is practical, so I end up with a slot fitted as close as I can do . I drill one, or two parallel holes when possible, and open them up with bits I modify to having not a point, but a pair of "spurs". I first flatten the point, and then with a dremel stone cone or conical hollow the flat leaveing spurs. Cuts very quick and easy and is controlable.

[Ed Caffrey]

There are basically three ways to construct hidden tang knives. One involves a solid block, drilled out as LRB mentioned, the second is what is generally called a "rabbitt" tang construction. In this method handle slabs are used, with each slab being carved out to accept 1/2 of the tangs thickness. The two carved slabs are then glued in such a manner that they envelope the tang. Third, and knife can be made with handle slabs and a "frame" made of mild steel. This design will give the appearance of a full tang, but by virtue of it's design, it allows you to make handles that would otherwise not be possible, such as the "coffin" or "dogbone" handle seen on some bowies.

I keep several sizes of 6" long drill bits in the shop just for the purpose of making hidden tang handles. All of the hidden tangs I forge incorporate a tapered design, and I try to create handle holes that will fit that taper. Many times it requires the use of either small round or square rasps. When you first start making hidden tangs, the tendency is to make the hole too tight. On some woods you can heat the tang and burn it into the handle material when things are not fitting right. I prefer to leave a bit of extra room for the tang to accomodate the epoxy, accra-glass, or whatever glue is being used. I also will slightly notch all the edges of the tang to give the glue something to "bite" into.

[jph]

Howdy:

I usually just drill a couple of holes, open them up a bit and then VERY CAREFULLY heat the tang and force the grip onto it. This is a very old way of doing this and when properly done, makes for a very secure fit. It can, however destroy the grip if you are not careful, but it does work.

JPH

[Mut]

I am a maker of scandinavian hidden tang knives, and this is the way I do it.

Shape the tang as conially as possible to a point at the end. Drill one hole in the centre of the shaft blank that is the same thickness as the tang.

slightly above and slightly below this hole I drill a smaller hole at an angle which goes into the central hole. This eases holing out.

from here I use a hole rasp ( which can be made from a jigsaw blade,) to remove the excess material in the shaft and then flat and square nail files o get a good tight fit.

the idea behind the point on the tang is that when the blade is almost home ( bar a couple of mm) you can forve the shaft blank on with a rubber mallet.

Personally I try not to use epoxy as the blade then sits for ever. If there is damage to the blade that means the blade hs to be removed, it is an awful lot of work to get it out without damaging the shaft.

I use SHELLAKK which is crushed and the tang hole is filled ( providing there is a tight fit,) The blade is protected from heat transfer abd the tang warmed on the end until it starts to change colour. The the tang is forced into the hole melting the shellakk on the way ( you may need to do this several times to get the blade all the way in).

Should there be daage to the blade, then the blade can be lightly warmed and the blade pulled out. The shellakk that is in the hole will harden and can be reused when you mount the repaired of new blade.

This is just my way. Hope it helps.

[hammerdownnow]

I was thinking about useing shelac or varnish boiled down in place of pine pitch. Thanks Mut.

[Mut]

I used to use epoxy until about 6 months ago.

It shrinks a lot and although it is undoubtably strong, it has it's limitations, mix to much hardner and it becomes brittle.

Shellakk is great, once you have fixed the blade you can make a small cut with a scalpel along the blade to lift the excess from the metal. Submerge the blade inwater fro 3 minutes and the job is done, and the shellakk cured.

If you should get some hardened shellakk on the blade then you can remove it with a pointed stick of hardwood without marking the blade., Keep hold of the excess, you can use it again.100grams of the stuff will last ages.

IF you don't have a blowtorch then you can make a thickish mixture with some kind of fast evaporating solvent, and poor it into the hole as you would epoxy. the shellac properties stay the same, but the blade is not fixed for a while after. The solvent has to ecvaporate to air first then the shellack hardens. Both work well, it depends on how fast you want to fix the blade.

[hammerdownnow]

I hate to watch epoxy dry. I glued on some snakewood scales the other day. Soon as I had the epoxy on I peened the brass pins wiped it down with acetone and sanded everything to shape. I figured the glue would dry in its own sweet time. Seemed to work fine and I did not have the dreaded wait.

[foxfyre841]

on using the drill out method for hidden or rat-tail tangs:
is it possible to fit a sort of leveler to the drill to provide a level and 90 degree shoulder on the horn for ease of fitting later?

on using shellac flakes for glue:
has anyone tried this with hidden tang handles of antler? any tips on doing that? is it still a strong hold? has anyone tried lacquer burn in sticks instead of shellac? (one would think that this would be stronger and more water proof)

Also on getting that spacer to take up all the little cracks that might pop up because shoulders on guard and handle material aren't squared up great:
Has anyone tried felt washers that later would be impregnated w/ CA or epoxy or other hard liquid finishes? Any other suggestions?

thanks
james