Ultra High Speed Grinder

[cactusforge]

Do these very high speed hand grinders like the Turbo-Carver have a place in a knife making shop. These are the kind that run at 300,000 RPN and up. I have though that thy would be handy in some places. Some kinds of carving and engraving could be done. Has any one tried them? Now before some one gets all bent out of shape I am not talking about trying to do the type of engraving that is done by the very skilled artists that are members of TKN. Gib

[TexasJack]

Discussions on ultra-high speed tools are almost as common as discussions on belt sanders. I have a TurboCarver and have had good luck with it. I think Bob Warner has reported the same. Several others have discussed different brands and why they like them.

Bottom line is that these tools will cut into almost anything - even hardened steel or glass - but they don't remove much stock in a pass. Slower speed stuff - like Dremel or some of the decent air tools - will remove more stock, but are limited in how well they cut through hard materials and how well they can do finer detail work. It doesn't take me long to figure out that having both of these tools plus a decent belt sander will allow you to do a broad range of things without much trouble.

[fitzo]

For fear of disagreeing with the experts again, I will simply say this:

Higher torque machines like Foredoms and Dremels have the hazard of jumping out of a cut and skidding across the workpiece. The high speed pens are designed for almost no torque so that they will not do that. Some will say they can stop it with their tongue; they have a hellacious tongue is all I can say. There are good carbide and diamond cutters out there from places like Shore International that remove absolutely all the stock I ever want in a single pass.

I use the Foredom and Dremels a lot. I use the high speed jobbie more. They are delicate enough to carve eggs and have enough torque to carve your teeth at the dentists, let alone steel.


Others have different opinions, Gib, but that's my take on 'em.

[Osprey Guy]

This subject was covered just recently at length...Some of the best experts around contributed to the discussion.

Here's the thread from the "Fine Embellishment" forum:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=23067


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[TexasJack]

What Fitzo says is true enough. Sometimes when I'm using the Turbocarver, I almost get into a 'zone' because it will do such a nice job of cutting what you want it to cut. It's a pretty sweet tool for carving, inlays, even fine trimming.

Dremels and Foredoms have their place. They do a nice job on grinding out finger grooves, for example.

[Osprey Guy]

On the strength of David Broadwell's and Ray Cover's endorsement of the micro-motor carvers, a close friend of mine, Kelly Carlson, ordered one. He's been using it for nearly 2 weeks now and from our frequent, in-depth phone discussions I'd be strongly inclined to recommend one of that type to any knifemaker.

Don't get me wrong, I love my GRS 850 Turbine Carver, but it is limited in that it can only take a 1/16" shank. Fantastic for very fine detailed work, but there are plenty of occasions when I need to be using a 3/32" or 1/8" bur for larger removal, but still with a very steady hand. The micromotors can handle all three sizes of collets. Kelly says his will do up to 50,000 rpm, is even smoother than his pencil micro die grinder (which is what I mostly now use for larger areas and had previously recommended to Kelly), and one more no small thing...it's incredibly quiet (definitely not a feature of the micro die grinder!).

There are a couple of websites mentioned in the thread I posted in my previous response...
Here's another:
http://www.ramprodinc.com/rampower45.htm

I'm certain I'll wind up getting one of these in the not-too-distant future.


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[cactusforge]

Thanks for the info, very helpfull in trying to make up my mind. Gib

[fitzo]

Originally Posted by TexasJack

Dremels and Foredoms have their place. They do a nice job on grinding out finger grooves, for example.

I agree completely, Jack. I would not want to be without either or both of those. For a knifemaker, I'd say that should probably come before the ultra high speed pen.

What Dennis said about the larger shank sizes is very important. Most all the polishing wheels and such need the larger shank and slower speed. I use the heck out of impregnated-elastomers for polishing. There's an 1/8" shank Dremel carbide bit called "tile cutting" that I would absolutely hate to be without in the shop.

Something I'd like to read is a comparison of the high-priced Foredom Micro-motor tool versus the less expensive choices available. They're only about half the price. Is there a huge difference between the brands? Bearing life, torque, just what?

[cactusforge]

I guss it is time to take the plunge and get one, I have a Foredom and a little air grinder from Harbor Freight that turns 50 or 60,000 so then I will be set.
Mike where do you get your burrs? I have been using Rio Grande, here little blue rubber knife edge wheel is a great help couldn't do without it. Gib

[Osprey Guy]

Mike-

For what's it worth, a famous knifemiker known for his high-end, art knife folders lives 10 minutes down the road from Kelly. He has the Foredom version Micro-motor rotary carving tool...Kelly visits this maker on a regular basis and had often commented to me about the great (albeit very expensive) rotary carver. Now that Kelly bought one of the "1/2 price" versions he says that so far, his cheaper version seems quite similar to the more expensive Foredom (at nearly $800!!!...closer to $1000 by the time you get any extras).

On at least two different occasions, I've been on the phone with Kelly when he will enthusaistically say "listen to this!"...and I'll hear nothing but a low key "whirring"...The sound of his new, micro-motor rotary carving tool!


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Osprey Guy

For what's it worth, a famous knifemiker known for his high-end, art knife folders lives 10 minutes down the road from Kelly.

Stop, Dennis! You are making me blush! I'll have to add however that I only live 5 minutes down the road... oh... were you talking about me? Ah well then you must have been referring to HH.

[fitzo]

Gib, I get most of my 1/16" shank burs from Shore International:

http://shorinternational.com/BurSuperCarbide.htm

The carbide burs are Foredom (don't know the actual manufacturer). The diamond, Eurotool. I don't know how they compare, pricewise, to be honest. Some of the diamond burs on that page only come in a six-pack. I took a hint from Dennis, and asked the dentist about used burs. His assistant told me "It's about time to change his set out." She gave me a dozen used but serviceable burs. Thanks, Dennis!! They use a lot of burs that are combo diamond and carbide, expensive beasties at $8 per! $2.50-3.60 is bad enough.

Dennis mentioned a couple of other good looking sources, like Diatech, in the thread he quoted earlier. Check them out, too. I like Shore because of the large selection of sizes.

I get all the polishing stuff like the little wheels from Rio Grande. I don't buy any burs from them. Their "tungsten-vanadium" burs go dull the second they touch steel, in my experience. I stick with pure tungsten carbide whenever possibble.

BTW, for those who carve handle material a lot, there is a structured carbide bur out there called a "Typhoon". It is of exceptional quality for roughing. They look fragile but aren't. They will cut steel if need be, but I find the regular carbide better, IMO.

Dennis, thanks for the endorsement. Sometimes there's a value difference in going with the high-priced spread, and sometimes one is just wasting money for a name. I've been contemplating a birthday present to meself, and am torn between a micro-motor and a Smith Little Torch for jewelry work.

[Osprey Guy]

Jeff-

Man, living smack dab between two terrific makers like Kelly and HH! Talk about inspiration! ....

Although Kelly would probably never get any work done with me around bugging him all the time for help with knifemaking, especially on folders (I hear HH tends to be kinda on the private side).

Lucky you!

Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[DiamondG Knives]

Glad I ran across this post, Im looking into getting one of these. Is the Rampower the one your friend has Dennis?

With a plastic body, do you have the torque the case problem when changing bits? had this problem once with a dremel.

Thanks for the info and the input guys!!

God Bless
Mike

[Osprey Guy]

Kelly got the "Micro-Pro"...same one as David Broadwell and Ray Cover (50,000 rpm the more powerful of the two Micro-Pro versions).
They all purchased them from here:

http://www.woodcarverssupply.com/store/

None of them were aware of the Ram Micro motor versions at the time of purchase...There are a few other versions as well. Having reviewed the specs from every version I could find, and all things being relatively equal pricewise,...I'm inclined to suspect that Ram may have a slight edge over the others...but then that's probably more gut feeling than anything else.


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!