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The Business of Knife Making A forum dedicated to all aspects of running, managing and legal operational issues relating to the custom knife making and custom knife selling industry.

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  #16  
Old 08-02-2003, 08:46 PM
N House N House is offline
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Tim
Check your PM
Nathan


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  #17  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:02 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Paying your dues

N House,

The term "paying your dues" leaves a bad taste in new knife maker's mouths, because they have not paid their dues.

Yes, on occasion there is a new knife maker that will come along doing such good work that he/she can simply not be ignored.

However, most knife makers must spend years developing their skills and customer base.

There are so many pit falls and business decisions that have to be made along the way. It is amazing that any knife makers can stay around long enough to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

So continue to do your homework. Develop a sound business plan. Keep your prices in line with the quality and do everything you can to keep your name out there.


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  #18  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:05 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Nathan & Tim -
Thanks I couldn't agree more.
"Paying your dues" is plain and simply how good you are - "Time in Rank" or what tools you have or whatever has nothing to do with it.


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  #19  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:23 PM
N House N House is offline
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Les
Check your email,I sent you a picture of my third forth and fifth
knife I have completed.Let me know if you think I have paid my dues?
Nathan


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  #20  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:35 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Nathan,

Nice knives, Id have to see one in person to give you a through evaluation.

What is the price range on these knives?

Guys, as much as makers like to think that talent is the only thing that counts. That is only one factor.

There are alot of really good knife makers out there right now who can't give away a knife. Ask a lot of the makers who attened the Guild Show.

On the other hand there are several who continue to extend their delivery time to keep up with orders.

Both groups of makers feature talented knife makers. So what is the difference?

Why is one maker in demand while another can't sell a knife?

The answer is fairly obvious. Part of it has to do with "paying your dues". The other part? Well it's best that each maker discover that part for themselves. As it will vary with each maker.


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  #21  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:49 PM
N House N House is offline
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Les
I could not price them as they were just learing knives,But I have some that I am working on that are going to be very interesting.they will have the deep hollow grind with the rounded shoulders.I have praticed alot
to learn how to grind.I am a new maker.I will start my knives off at about 180 with a custom sheath and a haned rubbed satin finish
my base models will be D2, with G10,I will work with other steel per request
I am also working with some RWL 34 at the time and I really like the finsh it takes.
I am still in the prototype stage but I have 5 good differnt models of knives made at the time.I am going to finsih them
up and show them to the forums to see how they like it
maybe all my practice and designing will pay off(I hope)
Nathan


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  #22  
Old 08-02-2003, 09:55 PM
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Tim Adlam Tim Adlam is offline
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Les,

Would the "other part" have something to do with Listening to what the buying public desires, along with a bit of innovation?

Tim
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  #23  
Old 08-02-2003, 10:05 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Tim,

Exactly right, listening to what the clients want is a big part of it.

Too many makers listen to other makers. Most (Sorry guys) really don't understand the overall custom knife market.

The other part is the "business aspect" of custom knives. Many makes don't give this aspect the attention that it deserves.

Reasons range from, "Im an artist and can't concern myself with the business aspect to, I just can't honestly find the time to develop the business side (this is more likely the truth than anything).

Talent and making knives is only one side of the coin when it comes to being a successful knife maker.


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  #24  
Old 08-02-2003, 10:28 PM
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Tim Adlam Tim Adlam is offline
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Les,

I've heard some of the discussions amongst makers that ranged from, "there's too many new makers coming into the market", ...to...
"I need a better table position if I'm gonna' sell anything here (at this show)".

I don't buy into either statement.

I know many artisans who would rather make knives than work on their people skills...but I feel that this is as important as any amount of artistic talent.

Tim
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2003, 12:41 AM
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KNAdmin KNAdmin is offline
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Hey, this is great!

-----
Question ... "how does one know when their 'dues' are paid?"
-----



Alex


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  #26  
Old 08-03-2003, 10:12 AM
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Tim Adlam Tim Adlam is offline
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Alex,

For starters, I'd put at the top of the list...
...When demand for one's product exceeds the supply.
...And...
...When you're setting standards that others follow.

Tim
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2003, 11:44 AM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Alex,

The answer is the same for the question, "when do I raise my prices"?

When all you take home from a show is your table cover and most of your order book is full!


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  #28  
Old 08-03-2003, 01:11 PM
N House N House is offline
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Les, I hope to be there someday,I will be going to my first show next june.I will be at the blade show,I hope I get some good
input and maybe sell some of my work.You have seen a sample off my work.I have no were to go but up


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  #29  
Old 08-03-2003, 04:44 PM
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hammerdownnow hammerdownnow is offline
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I came this way and stumbled into this fantastic cornucopia of knowlege by way of studying survival and self sufficient living. I did not stay with the idea of "cashing in " on the custom knife craze. I consider myself a student of the blade and if and when I ever learn how to hammer in bevels and heat treat properly I might get close to a buffer. In my everyday life in my chosen profession, I am considered a master. Anyone that wants to learn my craft from me has to "pay some serious dues".To be my apprentice the first thing you have to do is sign a five year contract. The first year you keep your regular job and come to the shop on your time off and learn shop maintenance, run errands and prove yourself worthy. If during that time I deem you not worthy I will say good bye and that is it. The second year, it gets a little tougher. That ,by the way, is how I learned also. If and when the master who deemed me worthy all those 20 years ago and is the reason I get to put bread in my babies mouths doing what I love, calls for help. I gladly go and work for him at apprentice wages. I go gladly. Happily. I know I will learn something new for he is always learning after 40 years. Have I payed my dues? Will I wake up one day and all my dues will be paid? When is one finished paying dues for a priceless gift?

The learning curve here has been greatly reduced solely by the generosity and love for the art of men who have paid those dues for you. All that hard work and "homework" is here for us at the click of a mouse.That which has been so freely given should be respected and appreciated. I don't care how talented one thinks one is, you can't just heat up a piece of metal, dunk it in a bucket of oil, call it a knife and demand 200 bucks for it.. I am sure if you ask any of the masters here they will tell you. After a lifetime of study they have only scratched the surface on what there is to learn.
"Paying ones dues" here, in part, is a matter of giving respect to those who have chosen to share what they have learned by traveling a million miles and grinding 10,000 yards of steel.
Would you imagine that these guys showed up on Bill Morans porch and said "So old man, How soon can I expect to make the big bucks?" A swift kick in the pants I'm sure would have been his reply.
Have you ever noticed the most sought after knives are those made by the most humble of men?. What pecentage would you think a knife is valued by the respect given to the man who made it? How do you suppose that man got that respect? You can't demand respect,you have to earn it. To earn respect you have to first give it. All part of "paying your dues."
The true meaning seems to have become lost or at least blurred by the generation X'ers. We think we do our kids a favor by handing them everything. We love them so much we want them to have and enjoy. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" "This is gonna hurt me more than it is gonna hurt you" " Paying ones dues". Just cliche's really. Just trite sayings,with much deeper meanings. Learning the meanings of these sayings is the first step in understanding them. When you are on the road to paying your dues and have earned the respect of your peers, then and only then, will you reap your rewards.

Just my opinion. Given with much love and respect.


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  #30  
Old 08-03-2003, 05:40 PM
Al Polkowski Al Polkowski is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hammerdownnow
All part of "paying your dues."

The true meaning seems to have become lost or at least blurred by the generation X'ers. We think we do our kids a favor by handing them everything. We love them so much we want them to have and enjoy. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" "This is gonna hurt me more than it is gonna hurt you" " Paying ones dues". Just cliche's really. Just trite sayings,with much deeper meanings. Learning the meanings of these sayings is the first step in understanding them. When you are on the road to paying your dues and have earned the respect of your peers, then and only then, will you reap your rewards.
Just my opinion. Given with much love and respect.
This gentleman really does "GET IT". He and I are cut from the same jib. (OK peoples...figure that one out.)

I didn't realize it, but this IS a Gen-X instant gratification thing. What else can explain it?

Wanna have some fun with a Gen-X'er? Ask him to help you find a churchkey.

Regards
AL P
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