Arizona Bladesmiths: Need Help?

[foxfyre841]

Hi,
I have been, for a while now, doing jobs and making the daily grind. Mine is a story I'm sure all of you have heard and many of you are intimately familiar with. I love blade smithing. I love every bit of it. I have no illusions about fiscal and marketing difficulties facing bladsmiths these days, but it's still what I want to be doing. My fiance recently got into graduate school here at Arizona State. So, I quit my job and made the move. And since then, I have had a lot of time to think about where I'm going. Currently, it's not where I want to be, not even close to teh direction I want to be moving. I have little money working jobs that aren't fulfilling. I want to be a knife smith. I can't afford classroom training and I have heard very little of successful apprenticeships here. Every imaginable grunt work. But, I wanted to find out what's out here. So I'm asking. I can offer to help bladesmiths here, free; at least concerning money. I've read the books and have actually banged around a bit at a gatemaker's forge. What I want is direct experience. Some time at the anvil and grinder if possible. I'm an engineer supposedly, and think that i'm at least not an idiot, or homeless. But as unattractive as it is, I am desperate. So I'm asking this network, what is available? What can I do to be taken on, if even only part time?

Thanks for reading.
Sincerely,
James Busch
Tempe, AZ

[Ray Rogers]

James,

Well, there are a lot of options. First, when learning any new discipline I find it very useful to immerse myself in every aspect of it. When it came to knifemaking about 12 years ago, that meant subscribing to every available knife magazine, getting catalogs from every major supplier of knifemaking materials and tools, going to the shows, buying the knife making videos and books, hanging out on these forums, and last but not least - actually making knives.

Education is not free but the expense involved in following the above advice is modest compared to college tuitions or even trade school training. Do as much of it as you can until you start to find your direction.

First hand learning is the best for most people. For a blade smith, the cheapest and fastest and easiest to find hands-on bladesmithing classes come by attending the hammer-ins. Bowie has one at the end of this month, try VERY hard to get over there! There is a thread on it just below this thread.

Finally, spend time on Ed Caffrey's Forum here on KNET. If there is anyone available for lessons in your area, those guys are the ones most likely to know about it ....

[rhrocker]

My thoughts James (and it's probably not what you want to hear): I'd concentrate setting my priorities, the main one being income. I think it would be very difficult to get into knifesmithing cold and make a viable income from it. Thinking back on the last few years that I've been on some of these forums, I've see a LOT of names come and go, for one reason or the other. I'd suggest you use your engineering degree to nail down a good solid job for you and your fiance. Then, in the evenings, weekends, holidays, do what Ray said and seek out the experience of others. Collect equipment based on this forum and others. These guys know what it takes to make a knife, believe me. Rent, borrow, or buy books and videos to learn as much as you can about it. Knifemaking is not totally forge and anvil work, that's a small albiet important part of it.

Good luck, and stay on the forum, you'll gain a lot here to. You have the enthusiasm, so now go put it all together.

[Ray Rogers]

What Robert said is another piece of good advice. It's also exactly what I did before i went full time 6 + years ago. For about 6 years before that I worked a good job with good income. Every spare penny went into buying they equipment i would need for knife making, especially the big expensive machines that are difficult to buy on what you will probably be making from knives.

When that job dried up I went directly into knife making. I bought some land, built a shop and living quarters and stocked it all with the tools I had already paid for. The result was a fully supplied shop, no mortgage, and almost no expenses except for raw materials. Even with that advantage and having a years worth of orders on hand at all times for the last 5 years my income is still well below the state's poverty level. However, i live very well on that limited income because I planned for it.

Robert is very correct when he said it takes more than an anvil and forge, much more. Speed is very importanat if you plan on having any kind of serious income and speed comes from having horsepower available, i.e., you need machines and not cheap ones either!

Assuming you have no other income or great personal wealth you should go back to engineering for a few years a save up some money and acquire equipment while getting as much practice and education as possible along the way. With very few exceptions, you cannot expect to enter full time knife making and survive with it as your sole income if you have any significant bills or regular expenditures (not even payments on the machines).

Yes, I saw the part about your fiance's potential but a) you aren't married yet B) when you are married it will be a strain on your relationship if she has to carry you for many years c) marriages bring more billsand demands on your time, not less

Bottom line: full time knife making is a job primarily suited to retired people with some sort of auxillary income. The rest of us have to plan very carefully to make it work ....

[blacksmith101]

James. I can add a little to what Ray and Robert wisely gave you. I have worked 20+ years at Cat. I loved knives and always wanted to make knives. I have spent many years now toiling at my day job so that I could afford to buy the tooling that I needed and to get the knowledge that I needed to operate those tools. Hammerins are a great way of gaining info that you will need. These forums are a great way of learning. Try to learn before you make mistakes. Utmost find out your wife to be's feelings on the subject are. This will be important in the future. Most women feel that it is better to spend your time in the shop than in the tavern. If your wife to be needs a lot of your time, then rethink the issues. In a divorce they will get 60% of everything. Budjet your money wisely saving a percentage for tools. As you start to make knives reinvest the money made back into tools and supplies. Sometimes we HAVE to do something we DISLIKE in order to afford what we LIKE to do. After you have saved some money, gained some knowledge of what you want to do, Then get with a Master Bladesmith like ED Caffrey for some hands on- one on one training. I feel that the week that I spent with ED advanced me 10+ years. I took the wife along- called it a vacation- all was well. Just follow these forums and post your questions. There are thousands of guys just like you that have been there and done that. Good luck with your QUEST. Merle

[ranger1]

James,
Knife making is an art.and like all art it takes years to master.Most on this forum will probably agree that it takes alot of time to get to a level where your work will start to pay.I had 4 months out of work and the help of great maker when I started.I've just now started making a little money on knives.(2 years later)At first I gave them away as presents B-days and such.Then selling them just to recoop the cost of materials on b-days and christmas had my family just give me cash instead of presents.All the money from selling knives and bonuses from work went to my knife shop.Even with my wifes generousity of a Bader B-III belt grinder for my birthday their is still alot of equipment I still need.
Most makers will help you in your quest.Not many if any will alow you to help them with their work. If I sell a knife with my name on it all the work was done by me.It is a very personal thing.I figured up my last knife sold and my hourly wage is $1.82.But if you have the time and the money to work at it hard and attend the shows it could be done.
You are going to find that this is more a labor of love.I work almost every week-end and hope that in 11 years I can make knives and help subsadize my income after retirement.
Don't want to discourage you.Wish you all the luck in the world.You can also get alot of good info from this forum.

[skipknives]

Hi James
I invite you to look at AKCA.net and then come join us on the fourth thursday of the month.
There are some ABS guys that come to the meetings and you might get a local friendship going over their anvils.
Find directions to the meeting hall in the on line news letters or drop me an Email.
skipknives@excite.com
The meetings are open and free to our gests and there is food and drink at a fair price at the hall.
Major cross streets are 40th ST. and Van Buren (the Shriners hall is just north of that)

[Geno]

Videos could be what you need, like private lessons in your living room.