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  #31  
Old 08-03-2003, 07:33 PM
N House N House is offline
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I am a new maker and I am 32,I can help you find that chruch key
I am there every Sunday.Alot of new maker like myself have only these forums to help me make knives.To lump every younger maker into one category is a very hard and indifferent thing to
do.Not every young maker is looking for instance fame,I am one who knows it takes hard work and a drive to want to do it


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  #32  
Old 08-03-2003, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
All part of "paying your dues."
The true meaning seems to have become lost or at least blurred by the generation X'ers.

As a Generation X-er I beg to differ! The Boomers are the ones who got it all and left us with the mess. What can we do? Nothing but struggle and remember that we'll work harder than the Boomers and get less for it... I know a lot of self-identified Gen X-ers who know paying dues better than anyone else. We see through the consumerism and hype and those who aren't watching carefully might think we don't care. We do. We just know it's hopeless to change the system on any large scale.

However... and I think this distinction really gets lost on Boomers: Generation Y or Generation Next... whatever you want to call them... those guys are jaded *and* co-opted by the consumer culture. Scary.

How does that figure into knives? It means I have the good sense to know that unless I want to sell out and go production and marketing crazy I'll never make a lot of money in knives. That's O.K. I love 'em anyway.

PS- Church Key? I think I remember some old hippies using that term. Depends on what you call "Church".


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  #33  
Old 08-04-2003, 10:38 PM
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Tim Adlam Tim Adlam is offline
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I didn't realize it, but this IS a Gen-X instant gratification thing. What else can explain it?


Al,

Are you saying that a new knife maker with an exceptional skill level, can't compete with established "known" makers on
the same playing field...mainly the knife collecting and knife using public?

Tim
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2003, 11:23 PM
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No, not at all. No ones individual talent was ever in question. The quection was: Someone ask for an explaination of "Paying ones dues" The quote you are referring to was a question about how the meaning may have been lost.

In all walks of life it is best to play nice. Have respect for the people that have lead you in the right direction. Be humble about your work. Nobody likes a bragger. They usually end up learning the hard way because those who could teach them something can't get a word in edgewise.

People can see your talent and want to help you succeed. It is a great feeling to have given someone a tip and have them take it to a new level.
It is also a great feeling for someone to thank you for that tip.
It is also a great feeling to thank someone for a tip that has helped you along. It gives them a lift and makes them feel they have done a good thing and makes them more likely to share more in the future.

So, If there is all this opportunity for feeling great, lets take advantage of it.

It is hard for old farts not to preach. It is really hard to be preached at. If someone tells me I may not be acting right, the first thing I try to do (not always successfully) is to ponder on what they said and what they might be trying to tell me.
If I had a nickle for evertime I have said "I wish i would have listened" I would have like....a whole bunch of nickles.
I realize now that they were giving me good advice to help me. At the time I felt like I was being bitched at. Try to take this advice in a good way because that is how it is meant.


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Last edited by hammerdownnow; 08-04-2003 at 11:42 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:52 AM
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I hear ya,

I've had many mentors in my life, but one stands out.
That's why I'm on this forum giving back what I've been taught.
I've learned my vocation, (engraving), without the benefit of serving an apprenticeship.
There wasn't enough of us around back then, (1980's).
My continuing education is based upon the foundation of what I was taught, ... "Take what you learn in other areas of your life,
and apply it to the task at hand, ... because its all connected."

The "dues paying" meaning isn't lost on the new people coming into whatever vocation one choses.

Its a different era.

The difference remains perhaps, within the learning curve they have to presently endure.
...And the help they get from us "old farts"! ...

Tim
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  #36  
Old 08-05-2003, 10:38 AM
Al Polkowski Al Polkowski is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Adlam


Al,

Are you saying that a new knife maker with an exceptional skill level, can't compete with established "known" makers on
the same playing field...mainly the knife collecting and knife using public?

Tim
I did not make that statement.

AL P.
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  #37  
Old 08-05-2003, 11:11 AM
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Thanks Al,

Hammer cleared it up for me.

Tim
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  #38  
Old 09-12-2003, 07:48 AM
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Guys, this is good stuff. Makes one really ponder a bit on what it is that really drives us to do what we do. Never could get a good handle on paying dues. Hammer spoke well and made sense.
If there isn't some difficulty in the learning curve there's not much learning just mimicing. Helping others is always a step toward self improvement. Forces you to think about what you've been doing and why. The focus helps you to find better ways to do things.
On the other hand talent and skill are just that. In the "system" we have today, it won't automatically put you out front. There are politics involved, always has been, always will be. You either have to live with it and learn to work with it or be a hermit (now they get a lot of exposure!).
JLoose is a smart guy and a talented artisian, so no disrespect intended. However, the problems with this society did not leapfrog a generation. They are passed on from generation to generation, and are part of the process good or bad. Wear it. You check around somebody else always "got it all". I'm an early boomer and I have a lot of friends and we all want to know who "got it". Definitley not the working man! Most of the "X-ers" you see around here live in $250 K + homes drive mighty nice cars and have a summer place on the lake and you're saying they didn't "buy" these? Man am I in the wrong racket!
Hey Al, I got a couple of cigarboxes full of church keys. Used to collect them as a kid. Can't find anything to use them on now. I wonder what kind of steel they were made from? Hmmm....a "church key" bowie could be interesting.
Crex


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  #39  
Old 09-12-2003, 11:05 AM
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Heh... Generation X isn't a generation per se... rather it's a dissaffected segment of a generation who were born mostly during Vietnam and it's aftermath. We got the name basically from marketers who couldn't figure out this particular segment of our age group who saw through their crap. The classic example is the Volkswagon ( or whatever kind of car it was ) ad comparing their car to Punk Rock in a favorable light. The ad actually caused sales to drop precipitously among the target audience. Most of us in the target age group understood the ad's intent. The yuppie-wannabe's of my generation hate punk rock and hated the ad. The true Gen X-er's ( Generation X comes from the name of Billy Idol's first band, btw. ) Anyway... the *true* Gen X-er's hated the crass commercialising of the thoroughly anti-commercial genre of Punk!

If you got a house on the lake and a 250K house you ain't an X-er... which is why I try to live the very honest and difficult life of the bladesmith.



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Last edited by J.Arthur Loose; 09-12-2003 at 02:57 PM.
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  #40  
Old 09-12-2003, 02:30 PM
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Ok ok, A "church key" is a bottle opener. I guess it got that name from its similar look to a large ring on a skeleton key. Double sacred today because you only really need them for the really fine beers. Here is an example that has two sins in one.

Close your eyes kids.



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  #41  
Old 09-12-2003, 04:54 PM
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2003, 04:59 PM
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2003, 05:53 PM
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Here is one that was a give away by ZZ Top when they were a garage band. I heard they re- popped them when "Legs" was released.


Hey, Time for a knife pic. Couldn't find Chris Crawfords beautius legs so:


So many ideas, so much beer!


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  #44  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:48 PM
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Paying dues

You never stop paying dues. Thats why it's called dues. If you don't want to pay your dues don't join the club. I have thought about this saying alot. For many years I was in band after band trying to to make that big hit, hoping that all the "dues "I paid would pay off. Going from club to club, rehearsal, studio, lugging all that !@!@#$ gear everyplace. All that stuff that I thought was paying my dues was just the stuff I had to do anyway to try and succeed. Paying dues just gets you into the club, it doesn't make you the president, just a member. What you do once your in the club is up to you. Dues are like taxes, you don't stop paying them till you die.
Mace


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