Still can't resist after turning away years ago

[edacsac]

Hello,

I used to hang out here about 5 years ago. I did a lot of reading and maybe made a couple of posts. I dropped the idea of knifemaking due to expense and the inability to really do anything without a grinder/belt sander. I was more into doing things by hand if I could, but learned it was pretty close to impossible, especially where the hollow grind is concerned.

Back then I contacted Don Cowles and asked to visit. Wow! Even though it was quite a while ago, I'm still impressed to this day. A very kind man to show his shop and craft along with wonderful products. But after seeing his impressive shop I threw in the towel since something like that was unattainable and impractical for me from a hobby standpoint.

The past weekend while some friends where over I pulled out all of my knives. Mostly Fury junk, a cheap balisong, etc. But I also found my tanto knife kit that I bought years ago. The blade is still in nice shape even though it's been laying around in a box unprotected.

I'd like to finish it. Didn't take much to bring the interest back and suck me into hours of reading. The handle scales that came with the kit are ruined. I over cut with my cheap hack saw at the time and just never got back to it. So I've ordered some new handle scales. Of course I chose the prettiest wood. I ordered some redwood burl from arizonaironwood and some stabilized ironwood from texas knife supply (kind of backwards I know). I also ordered a competition paring kit blade from texasknife and a couple cheap sets of scales to practice with before ruining the good wood. The good wood will most likely sit on a shelf for quite some time. Kind of like a goal to look forward to.

So the ironwood scales and the paring knife blade arrived, and now I'm confused as ever. The scales are book matched, but they are so thick. I can't imagine a knife big enough to use them on. Even with my tanto blade I'd be wasting 50% or more of the wood.

How do you work book matched sets? It seems that no matter which side I would choose to mount to the tang, I'd end up burning through the matched pattern. Do you mount the matched sides down to the tang, then remove excess or the other way around?

Knowing that I won't be purchasing grinders, sanders, buffers anytime soon, I'd like to just work on nice handles for kit blades, and maybe learn to inlay wire or something. I'm sure I can get away with that with just files, sandpaper and hand tools, right? I'm in no hurry. Ya, right. These scales are so thick, the first thing I want to do is split them to use on multiple knives. Can't really do that by hand. Hopefully when the cheap scales show up they won't be as thick.

The ironwood scales are polished on one side. They are so pretty I could just stand them up on my desk and enjoy them as they are.

I had more questions, but I spent the last week reading the forums again and I think I'm pretty squared away for everything else. I guess my last question would be if I could create a mirror polish on a blade by hand. It's starting to seem that the rpms of the buffing wheel is an important ingredient.

This forum seems a lot slower than it used to be years ago. Still lot's of awesome works in the showcase.

Cheers!

[Ed Tipton]

Your post almost reads as though you are waiting for someone to tell you what you should do next. You also seem to be somewhat fixated on the things you do not have as opposed to the things you do have. You don't need a big, fancy, fully equipped shop to make knives. It has been well documented as to what a fifty dollar knife shop can accomplish.
Buffers, grinders etc. are all good things to have, but they are not necessary. They are handy, desireable, fast, easier, and most knifemakers do have them. They are also more expensive, require additional training or knowledge to use and operate correctly, require additional power sources, and accessories.
The main thing that is needed is nothing more than a desire to create. It costs nothing, and there is no training required. The average person could make a very serviceable knife with a heat source, a hammer, a file, and lots of time and patience. little else is required.
Those who preceeded us in times past had little more, and yet they left a terrific heritage behind them. They did it without benefit of a 2 x 72 grinder, a propane forge, angle grinders, and all the fancy toys we enjoy today.
You can do it if you want to!

[edacsac]

With every hobby I start or skill I begin to learn, I almost need to make a post on an appropriate forum to make the start official. Knife making is intimidating to me for some reason. I've managed other first times with decent success, but knife making seems like it's going to much more difficult.

I have the $50 knife shop book. I have step by step knife making as well. Just re-read one and I'm bouncing around the other.

I'm definatly going to give it a try. I don't really want any large power tools for the most part. I'm hoping I can come up with an efficent hand working set up so it doesn't become frustrating.

[NJStricker]

If you think the wood is extremely thick, I wonder if you purchased blocks (for hidden tangs) rather than scales.

Either way, scales are generally cut in 2 sizes--larger 5+ inches long for fixed blade knives, and smaller 3.5 inch or so for folders. The scales are thick enough that the maker can make either a relatively flat handle, or they can go crazy and have an extremely contoured "coke bottle" shaped handle. Since most knife supply companies don't know how the scales are used, they generally sell one size that is big enough for the biggest fixed blade knives, some of which might have a 5 inch handle.

You are obviously hesitant and apprehensive about continuing this project, and while asking questions here is a good start, you really need to take the time and read up as much as you can about knifemaking.

The $50 Knife Shop is a good start. My biggest criticism about the book is that while there is a lot of good content, it is not laid out well for the beginning knifemaker who has little or no concept about the various steps involved in assembling a knife, much less making one from raw materials.

Other books like that by David Boye or Loveless and Barney are also good resources, but the manufacturing methods are generally based around a shop full of equipment. They do offer alternatives to the various steps, but it is almost treated as an afterthought, and is backwards in my way of thinking. It is almost as if their approach is 1) learn how to make a knife using a full shop of modern equipment, then 2) apply your new knowledge to a basic shop.

Personally, I think a better book is Tim McCreight's Custom Knifemaking (

Amazon.com: Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman (9780811721752): Tim McCreight: Books

Amazon.com: Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman (9780811721752): Tim McCreight: Books

). It describes basic tools and the process of making several different knife designs.

A very good resource is the gbrannon site: http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/#heat
Check out the single tutorial section, and read as much as you can about handle assembly and shaping. Think about a) how to fit the scales to the tang, b) what attachment methods you will use (epoxy and hardware), and c) how you will finish various the handle once assembled. (Hint: the front of the handle is very difficult to finish once it is on the tang without marring the finish of your blade.)

[Ray Rogers]

Pretty much any set of wood scales you buy will be 3/8" thick. This is the normal size to use on any fixed blade knife as big as the average skinning knife up to a big chef's knife. With bookmatched scales you just put them on, sand and shape, as you would with anything else.

That is a good bit of work to do by hand but far from impossible, especially with the right tools. A wood rasp will help a lot as would a coping saw so that you can cut the scales into a close profile before you start sanding.

Yes, you can get a mirror polish without a buffer. It's a matter of learning to use sandpaper properly and one heck of a lot of elbow grease. By the time you get past 1000 grit you'll start to create a mirror polish. That said, it is one of the big mistakes that every first time knife maker makes - they all want that ridiculous mirror finish. Why did I call it ridiculous? Because it keeps you from using the knife! Anything that touches that blade will put a scratch on it. It's your first knife, you just worked sooooo hard (or at least you think it was difficult) that you can't bear to scratch your master piece so you polish it again and put it away. Don't!!!!!!!!! Put a plain satin finish on it and then use the bejeezus out of that knife!! There is no better way to learn about what you did wrong in shaping and finishing that handle than actually using the knife as hard as possible. So, forget that 'collector' crap like mirror finishes, fancy wood, exotic metals, etc and make yourself a knife that you can and will use a lot. You'll learn more from that than if you read every post in this entire forum.

Now, the hard part: GET STARTED! No more questions, no more reading. It's two pieces of wood bolted to a kit blade with two bolts. That falls a little short of being rocket science so just do it. Use the cheaper wood and a modestly priced blade. Build the knife, use it, and if necessary, cut the handle off and do it again to improve the design or just to make it prettier. The only limits here are within yourself. If you haven't started making knives yet it's just because you haven't started....

[talmagemark]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

Pretty much any set of wood scales you buy will be 3/8" thick. This is the normal size to use on any fixed blade knife as big as the average skinning knife up to a big chef's knife. With bookmatched scales you just put them on, sand and shape, as you would with anything else.

That is a good bit of work to do by hand but far from impossible, especially with the right tools. A wood rasp will help a lot as would a coping saw so that you can cut the scales into a close profile before you start sanding.

Yes, you can get a mirror polish without a buffer. It's a matter of learning to use sandpaper properly and one heck of a lot of elbow grease. By the time you get past 1000 grit you'll start to create a mirror polish. That said, it is one of the big mistakes that every first time knife maker makes - they all want that ridiculous mirror finish. Why did I call it ridiculous? Because it keeps you from using the knife! Anything that touches that blade will put a scratch on it. It's your first knife, you just worked sooooo hard (or at least you think it was difficult) that you can't bear to scratch your master piece so you polish it again and put it away. Don't!!!!!!!!! Put a plain satin finish on it and then use the bejeezus out of that knife!! There is no better way to learn about what you did wrong in shaping and finishing that handle than actually using the knife as hard as possible. So, forget that 'collector' crap like mirror finishes, fancy wood, exotic metals, etc and make yourself a knife that you can and will use a lot. You'll learn more from that than if you read every post in this entire forum.

Now, the hard part: GET STARTED! No more questions, no more reading. It's two pieces of wood bolted to a kit blade with two bolts. That falls a little short of being rocket science so just do it. Use the cheaper wood and a modestly priced blade. Build the knife, use it, and if necessary, cut the handle off and do it again to improve the design or just to make it prettier. The only limits here are within yourself. If you haven't started making knives yet it's just because you haven't started....

Ray-Truer words were never spoken. The first knife I made while taking a knifemaking course at Montgomery Community College in North Carolina has a mirror finish. That knife will always hold a special place because it's the first knife I ever made but I doubt I'll ever do another mirror finish. Everytime I look at that knife it smudges. The satin/hand rubbed finish is much easier to deal with and maintain. I especially like your comment about using them. I've got bunches of production knives and several custom pieces and I switch back and forth between which ones I carry but I also try to make it a point to actually use them too.

[G?rard Heutte]

Hello edacsac,

Originally Posted by NJStricker

........................Personally, I think a better book is Tim McCreight's Custom Knifemaking (Amazon.com: Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman (9780811721752): Tim McCreight: Books). It describes basic tools and the process of making several different knife designs..............................

I agree ! This book is very good.

You can also find some technical data on my web site : http://coustil.free.fr
All the knives you can see here were made with limited equipment (e.g. no backstand...)

I wish you success with your making.

[edacsac]

Wow, isn't this fun!

Another 5 years have passed. I ended up taking a few file strikes here and there, doing some polishing of these kit blades, and kind of lost interest.

So here I am in the perfect situation, both financially and otherwise to get a KMG or the like, and I read this old thread and say shoot; I'm still fixed on the equipment.

I really want to do all this from scratch though. Forge, grind temper etc. But coming back and considering the time past, I probably don't want to build knives bad enough if I've shelved it until I could accommodate a KMG.

[Ray Rogers]

QUOTE: But coming back and considering the time past, I probably don't want to build knives bad enough if I've shelved it until I could accommodate a KMG.


Maybe you don't want to build knives bad enough for a KMG, after all, that is a major investment. But, making knives without a good 2x72 is just plain awkward at best. How about a compromise? Get a Grizzly 2x72 grinder and build yourself a basic forge (cheap, easy to do). Right there for well under $1000 you would have the most important parts you need to make your own blades.

After a year or two of making your own you can still get a KMG, many knife makers have started with a Griz and then added a KMG. Its always handy to have two grinders.

Or, if you decide knife making is not for you its pretty easy to sell a Griz since all new makers want one and the old makers don't want to let go of them.

What I'm saying is, you're still here. I figure somewhere deep down inside you must still have the urge...

[edacsac]

Thank you Ray,

A grizzly might be a perfect compromise for right now. I can do handle work on it and it has a polisher. Plus I can order the 10" wheel. It would probably be a nice tool to have around for some other things as well.

[Ray Rogers]

You can do much more than handle work on a Griz. Even after I spent $2k on a variable speed grinder I still went back to the Griz for grinding my large flat ground kitchen blades. The Griz is near impossible to bog down.

The Griz is a direct drive sander so the belt speed is about as fast as a grinder can normally get. For that reason, you might want to work with the standard 8" wheel that comes with it for a while to see how comfortable you are will the speed. When you mount the 10" wheel you will increase the speed considerably and lower the torque at the same time ...

[Hunter10139]

Just saying, craftsman has a 2x42 grinder that works really well for me.

[edacsac]

Originally Posted by Hunter10139

Just saying, craftsman has a 2x42 grinder that works really well for me.

did you use that grinder for this? http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=64892

[edacsac]

Did you make your most recent EDC with the craftsman? I like that little knife, and if I can get a result like that, I'll be ok. It almost looks like you managed to hollow grind?

[Crex]

Now, the hard part: GET STARTED! No more questions, no more reading. It's two pieces of wood bolted to a kit blade with two bolts. That falls a little short of being rocket science so just do it. Use the cheaper wood and a modestly priced blade. Build the knife, use it, and if necessary, cut the handle off and do it again to improve the design or just to make it prettier. The only limits here are within yourself. If you haven't started making knives yet it's just because you haven't started....

This is the bottom line and still true.....Ray's on the mark with this!