1095 quenched in oil

[Jeff Velasco]

Hello guys, I am one of the new members from the Brazilian society that has just arrived to the forum. I have been studing theories for a while and last weekend it was my first time at the forge and anvil, so to say. I am a hookie, but please, bear with me.

It was on one of our best custom smith's shop that we made this experience. And he did most of the job, since I suck in forging anyway, but I will get there

Well, we have tried 1095 (nicholson files) in oil quench, and got good results. No bending thanks to good grinding and anealing and no cracks, and it was #### hard as we tried it with the bastard file on the edge (it was a traditionaly shaped tanto, diferentialy heat treated) but I can?t say HOW hard...

So, has any of you ever worked 1095 in oil? How hard in RC can it get???

Thanks in advance for any imput.

PS. hamon was SO clear... beautiful!

[GANNMADE]

jeff i work with 1095 alot .i use old motor old and bacon grease mix with good results.as far as how hard 1095 will get
i'm not sure.with trial and error i had some blades that i had trouble getting an edge. you might try asking some of the guys
at THEOUTPOST or ED CAFFREY'S WORKSHOP.


GOODLUCK
GANNMADE

[Jeff Velasco]

Thanks budy.. as you have seen, I?ve done it.

Cheers.

[KandS_KNIVES]

Jeff, I beleive you can get consistant results in the 58-59 RC using oil as the quench. I also beleive you can achieve a higher RC using water as a quench. The only problem with 1095 steel is that it is not as high quality stuff it used to be. Many makers have stopped using 1095 for this reason, the steel has become inconsistant and that will change your HTing process'.

[Jeff Velasco]

Thanks for the tips Ken,

I was told the same thing by a number of metalurgial engeneers. They also told me that the best bet would be to find the lagest production ever. They said that industrial forges make the best stock in large quantities for a number of reasons, and they also care for the brand, so my best bet was nicholson 14" files and careful heat threatment before quench.

The only problem I faced was that my clay mix was not very good. I managed to fix it on the last one, but aparently I didn?t remove as much clay as I should, and the hamon was so thin on the edge I decided to redo all again. Since the forge I use is on a friend's shop some five hours drive from here, I am gonna try it next month again. RC 59 sounds very good though, since those tantos will probably see heavy tameshigiri cutting.

[Jason Cutter]

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forums, so I'm going wild, looking at everything, and having a go. Excellent stuff, and good work.

I only started making sole authorship knives last year December 2001. I started using old files which were supposed to be 1095. I had such good results with oil quenching, differential hardening and producing temper lines that for a while I wanted to use nothing else. The good big ones available in Australia are mainly old Nicholson and Wiltshire files.

Unfortunately, as you pointed out, I ran across a bunch of files that had different hardening characteristics which turned into a waste of time. I was tearing my hair out as I thought there was something seriously wrong with my quench method. They never seemed to fully harden and of course, I intially thought, wow, these blades are really easy to hand finish - I must be getting good at this !

It turned out to be a particular batch of very cheap Made in China files and rasps, found in Reject Shops (a popular chain of budget utility shops). I'm not sure, but I was quite mad. Had to cease production for almost 1month trying to sort this problem out. Incidentally, this led me to start using precision ground O-1. I consulted a University metallurgy student who offered to test the steel for me and said that one set of files was actually something like 1050 steel and another was 5160. Definitely not 1095. Another bizarre piece was some high carbon layer laminated onto mild steel. very disappointing.

I still like using 1095 (gee, is it 1095 ?) Anyway, I get a nice temper line. I quench in the cheapest vegetable cooking oil I can find. I don't know about Rockwell counts, but they hold a good edge and the local hunters are happy enough with it. I tried the quenchant "goop" suggested by Wayne Goddard in Blade magazine. It works very well and gives more accurate edge quench lines than liquid oil. But it STINKS !!! Had to give it up because I'd probably be kicked out of home ! Smelt like I'd set a cow on fire with 2-stroke oil !!

If you must use the 10xx series, I've been told that 1084 is manufactured more consistently and is more easily available and could be more suitable (as would 5160) to ballistic cutting like tameshigiri. Apparently some of the "1095" has carbon above 1% and it can become too brittle as it requires a more aggressive temper.

Anyway, I can't substantiate much of this information as its just what I've been told. I use O-1 almost exclusively now because my anxiety about the 1095. What have others found ? And can anyone clarify some of the points I've mentioned above ?

Ta (A friendly Thanks in Aussie-speak)

[Dan Graves]

One thing about 1095 is that when you quench you have to be speedy getting the metal into the quench. You will get different results with just a second or 2 difference. I had a thread in Ed Caffery's forum on "testing files for forging" . Some files are case hardened and are not good for forging. !084 is a better steel for forging in my believe. I had several discussions with Terry Primos about the pros and cons of 1095 as opposed to 1084. As far as rockwell hardness, a question was posed to Jerry Fisk what hardness he liked for his personel blades. He stated 54 to 56 hardness as it was easily shapened in the field. Just my 2 cents.

Dan
www.theknifemaker.com

[Dana Acker]

I cannot say what the Rockwell hardness is that I get with 1095 in an oil quench, but I've gotten consistently good results. I forge my blades, and usually edge quench in vegetable oil heated to 120 degrees F. I get a very good cutting edge with it (better in my case than with 1084.) I use 1095 from Admiral Steel in New York. http://www.admiralsteel.com/

I recommend normalizing 1095 one extra time prior to quenching, as I have had 1095 crack upon quenching. Since I've started normalizing after rough grinding, drilling, filing etc., I've eliminated that problem. It's a steel that seems to stress easily, and like me, it doesn't like stress. Temper immediately after hardening.

[Jeff Velasco]

Very ineteresting.

I have been exchanging messages with Dan Davis, Howard Clark, and Joseph Renner. All advised me to use hot water and I got much better results in the quench. It does tend to crak, specialy if you use a clay mix diferential heat treatment technique, so I make up to three normal normalizing cicles and on the last one (the fourth, prior to clay) I close the forge and let it cool as slowly as it can. If the piece is too long I will aneal it and heat treat the next day. Has been working...