Testing

What are everyones' thoughts on testing high performance blades?

I think it's hard to beat the real world for testing. Nothing says a hunting knife works better than a half dozen skinned carcasses. That's a little tough with fighting knives though.

Artificial targets like wood, rope, concrete (couldn't resist that one) and other such materials that are not what many knives are used for may not tell us much about how a blade will perform in its intended use.

Ideas?

Here's one I wouldn't recommend- a mentally ill woman I have been working with for a few years tried to use one of my knives to slash her wrist last night. I was able to wrestle it out of her hand before she did any damage, but that's one test I could live without.

Don, glad you were there!!!!

Jerry hit on a quandry I have been in for a while. I started just using sisal rope, 3/4" is what I have on hand, and just got tired of cutting with 10V blades, after 100 cuts the thing is still going! Like you say Jerry, all the chopping and hacking we can do on our end may not be a good representation of what the knife will do in the field.

I just got a letter from a customer down south who used his cruwear blade to cut carpet and limbs making stands in preparation for deer season. He also prepared several meals over the week and was still able to shave with the knife. While I don't know exactly what he did, he was absolutely thrilled with the performance.

Good question here! What do the rest of you guys think?

Most hunting knife blade failures I've witnessed were the result of cutting or prying bone, like prying a hip joint apart or cutting through a pelvis or brisket. Fortunately those weren't my knives, and usually were what brought customers to my door. Rope and wood don't really reflect that kind of normal use/abuse. Maybe you could just argue those are not knife tasks and are a reason to carry a hatchet or saw, but there are knives which can do those jobs. As I see it, this IS the problem with some testing.

Well, recently I`ve been able to some testing of my own on a folder i`ve been carrying ( which can be seen on my site...not the black handled one ) any ways gut and skin 2 mule deer, cut a few weiner sticks and some rope for hanging ( the mule deer..lol ) and various small camp chores and hey what do you know it still shaves hair easily. pretty good for a 2 1/4" O-1 blade...oh also I had cut through about 10 inches of brisket on that 300 + lb mule deer, that folder works wonderfully - a little discoloring but hey not bad for O-1. I still have 2 whitetailed deer I can shoot so I won`t sharpen it and will keep ya all posted on results!

the folder is now my daily carry!

just remembered we`re going moose hunting in a week and a half, now there`s the ultimate test for a folder!

well the folder is now on 3 deer, while it is still sharp it now doesn`t shave hair easily, but catches the fingernail real good and will slice the corner of a sheet of paper right off with the flick of the wrist!

Three deer is only half way there....now two moose dressed skinned and quartered is a test.

Gee I like moose hunting , until we get a moose.. and then all of the fun is over and the hard work begins.

This conversation brings to mind several encounters I have had at shows with different makers. I recall one fella who preached an entire weekend that he make the best elk knife available.(this fella happened to be from a state where there is NO elk herd) Finally I had enough and asked him just how many elk he had taken. His response was roundabout, but came down to the fact that he had never hunted elk, and in fact did not hunt at all.
I agree with Jerry and the rest that testing is best done under realistic conditions. I personally have no problem with "loaning" a knife to a person for hunting season. Everyone whom I've ever done this for has wound up buying it.
This may not always be possible for a maker, so the key is to develop a testing program that fits your desired objectives, and that can be repeated.
I personally cut 1/2" hemp rope, and do the brass rod test on every blade that leaves the shop. To suppliment this, I take about every 10th or 12th blade and just flat out destroy it to make sure things are keeping up to my stanards in the durability area.
If I had to suggest only one test that is doable by everyone, it would be the brass rod. Nothing I have found will give the maker a more accurate assessment of how the edge will preform, how his/her heat treating is, and whether or not the proper edge geometry was applied for the given steel.

I agree with the brass rod test as a generally good indication of how well your blade has been H/Ted.
But, The is no better test (for a knife) than real world. Every hunting season I usually give away a few knives to friends of mine who hunt, not be being a hunter myself (YET ) the information and feed back I get from them is priceless.

Another place that will really give a hunting knife a challenge is at a professional hunting camp. A good friend of mine and worked at one last year for 8 months and he took one of my skinners along. The only condition I gave him was that he keep track of what the knife was used for (animals) and when and how often it need sharpened after different animals.

At his camp over the time he was there they hunted, moose and black bear mostly I think they did some elk hunting too.
The guys at that camp sure know how to abuse a knife!!!
The knife I gave my friend stayed in the hut they use for cleaning/skinning the animals for the entire 8 months.
again the feedback and information I got from them was priceless.

Whatever method you use as a maker, I've always thought what you were trying to achieve was a delicate balance between sharp and tough. It's easy to make a knife pop hair and even cut a lot of rope; that defines a fine edge with reasonable wear resistance. The trick is making that same edge tolerate impact pressures and tolerance to lateral contact by very hard materials like the bone of a BIG animal like an elk or even a cow. That's what the brass rod tests.

I've lately been doing some work with various edge geometries and edge finishes, trying to make relatively inferior steel tolerate abuse and even wear better than might be expected. During the Blade Show I showed some visiting knifemakers how I sharpen an Ontario Machete (I think that is 1095 at about Rc50) so it will cut like stink and still endure some serious chopping. I've gone through 5 machetes so far this year, since they all seem to walk off with my visitors.

The most severe test of one of my sword edges was a series of cuts through a couple shanks of pork, one of which traversed 9+" of meat and 3-1/2" of bone. The blade also impacted hard rattan, 1" x 2" rock maple, dry bamboo, and some other materials numerous times, leaving just a single small 1/8" flat spot (~0.005" deep) on the edge of a Rc58 CPM-3V blade.

A review was written by Gaucho (aka Mario Dominguez, M.D.) who is a remarkably talented and well trained martial artist who can challenge a blade in a much more realistic series of tests than I am even capable of.

www.bladeforums.com/ubb/F...02184.html

BTW, I gave that sword to Datu Kelly Worden in appreciation of much useful advice he's given me. He in turn has since donated it as the Funeral Sword for Grand Master Remy Presas, founder of Modern Arnis who passed away last month. That was undoubtedly one of the most moving honors of my entire life.

The struggle to improve continues...