Shaping and Sharpening gravers....a whole new realm!

[Ed Caffrey]

My Power hone finally showed up yesterday, and I've discovered yet another layer of skill and learning required for engraving. I spent a couple of hours last night reading all the instructions and did manage to create a usable 60 degree graver from a square blank....what an adventure! Creating the heels seems to be my biggest weakness right now.....just can't seem to get them true and equal....much more practice needed there.
Where I'm still a bit confused is which gravers to use for which applications?
I've been doing most of my practice cutting with 120 degree gravers, but ran into a situation last night where I was working on a scroll pattern and needed to remove some background area........I assume a small flat graver is the tool to use, but I'm just guessing. Then there's the matter of smoothing out all the gouges left in the removed area. Do you make a flat pointed graver from a setting graver and "hammer" the background smooth, then stipple?

I'm reminded of when I was trying to learn to make damascus..... :confused:

[S. Dunn]

Hi Ed,
Glad to here you got your sharpening system in.
I use a square graver (90*) most all the time. It is ground with a 10* relief angle, 50* face, and 20* heel.
I hog off the big stuff on the belt grinder, and true everything up on the power hone, starting with the 100 grit gator wheel, 260, 600. 1200, and the ceramic wheel.
When doing the heel angle, I turn the machine off, with the 1200 grit wheel, or the ceramic, and hand turn the wheel about an inch, on each side. This make's a nice small, even heel.
As for relieving the back ground, again I use a 90*, and cut parallel lines, that look like this, VVVVVVVVVV, then take the appropriate size flat, and cut the top's off, trying to make it nice and level. And then stipple the back ground. The stipple tool I use is not round pointed, it's a four sided point, that is very sharp. If you simply grind a round point, it will allow more light to reflect out, vs. a faceted point.
Looking forward to seeing you next month!
S.Dunn

[Andy S]

Hi Ed,
Everyone seems to like slightly differant angles on thier gravers. My general use tool is a 120 graver with a 45-50 degree face and a 15 degree heel angle. Keep in mind that the 120 graver is less prone to breakage but requires a little more skill to control. Learning to engrave it also pays to use a slightly longer heel. It will give you more control. Granted you won't be making real tight turns with it. But while developing your skills you probably shouldn'y be attempting really small designs anyhow. Work your way down to them. I put my heel on with the ceramic wheel and diamond spray alone. I use carbide gravers so the stock does not come off too quikly and I can sneek up on it. Using standard high speed steels you may want to turn the wheel by hand in small amounts to sneek up on the heel. I also strop the graver on leather with diamond spray to put a polish on the heel. Let us know how things are going....
Andy

[Ed Caffrey]

Steve & Andy....

Thanks very much! After reading what you both wrote, I believe what I'm trying to do is put too much of a heel on the gravers. Sounds to me like we're only talking about a very tiny heel area...is that right?

Andy hit upon another question I had about cutting tight radiused lines. I'm always getting a drag mark just outside the cut..... Under the scope it looks like a huge ditch, but with the naked eye it's a very tiny line. Is this something you learn not to do over time....or am I using the wrong graver set up?


Steve: I could likely spend the whole week next month just learning what the various gravers can do......but I've been so taken by the gracefulness of what your doing on your bowies.....I'm really chomping at the bit to learn more!

[Tim Adlam]

Ed,
Hope this makes things clearer.
When you're leaving drag marks on curves, it's an indication that your cutting angle is too low.
The best thing to do is to re-shape the heel to a higher approach angle, but try to hit a happy medium...or just enough clearance while maintaining good control of the tool.



Here's another approach to relief background removal that is similar to what Steve does.

[Ed Caffrey]

Thanks Tim!

You folks are just a wealth of good information.....and since I can be pretty thick headed sometimes, the pictures are truely worth a thousand words!

[Tim Adlam]

Ed,
The heel-angle drawing is an exaggerated view.
In actual practice, it only takes a few degree difference to clear the radius of your cut.
As drawn...you could cut script in a spoon or ladle with that high of an angle.
Tim

[Jim Small]

Tim
Very nicely explained. I hope you don't mind....I copied this to file. If anyone wants a explaination I will whip the drawing on them.

Nice Job.........

Jim

[walker]

Tim, I,ve never engraved anything more than initials in a picnic table(long ago), but lately I'm getting interrested, especially after seeing some of the work you've produced. Can you recommend any litterature on the basics. I really like illustrations like those used in your earlier explanation. Something that explains exactly WHAT is being done, instead of just HOW to do it. I can wrap my brain around stuff like that! Thanks, WALKER

[Tim Adlam]

Well...the standard recommended reading is "The Art of Engraving" by Jim Meek, and though it's considered the "Bible" of engraving technique, it's confusing as hell on graver sharpening!
I still recommend the book [published by Brownells] but the best explanation I've ever found on graver sharpening was in Lynton McKenzies engraving video tapes.
Man...when I saw that, a light went on in my head!
[Illustrations can't beat a live show.]
Lynton referred to himself as a professional tool sharpener, and a part-time engraver!
No truer words were spoken.

Sometimes it helps to read between-the-lines when researching engraving technique.

I've seen old photos of engravers doing work in their laps! My next question was, did they fret over precision graver angles? What I figured is that through experience, repetition, and economy, they did what needed to be done.
That's my approach, and I'm still learning.

The kicker is...it's not the big deal you think it's made out to be.
Think of it more like learning to ride a bike.
If you put the necessary angles on the graver, the rest is all about learning to balance your hand control.
Easy for me to say, but it takes effort on your part to keep on truckin' until you get it to click in your head.

Here's the scenario...
You draw a line...actually cut to that line...impress the hell out of yourself...show your spouse...share that triumph with us!
That's how you get to the next level.
You can do it...anyone can do it if they're patient with themselves.

Tim

[HermanKnives]

Ed, instead of a "flat" graver I put a flat on the same angle of graver I make the initial cuts from...basically a 90 degree square with a flat put on at about a 30 degree heel angle. This way when you go around the basic design again after removing the background you leave the same nice bevels of your original cuts.
The bad thing about Meek's book is his favored graver is the onglette and I have never found a way to sharpen them and not get bad burrs on every cut. I do everything nowdays with a 120 and another one with a flat put on instead of a heel. 50 degree face. Properly sharpened this graver cuts great without any burrs. Hope this helps.