MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > High-Performance Blades

High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:26 PM
dancbr929 dancbr929 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yakima WA
Posts: 29
Ideas on strong adhesives

I am making a sword with a mortise tang handle. This sword is going to be used so I am looking for advice /glue to use for the handle. The handle will be made of G10 and will be a similar to a Japanese sword. It will make the handle so that it will come off when I pull the pins. I have used 2 part epoxies and they work well I just wanted to see what others are using for large using knives or swords.

Thanks

DAN
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:40 PM
Ed Caffrey's Avatar
Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Posts: 4,393
Send a message via AIM to Ed Caffrey Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Caffrey
I know I've said this alot, but I use nothing but Accra-Glass for anything associated with things I want to stay together. Most of the epoxies you can get commercially have only a 6 month shelf life from the date of manufacture, and only a 5 year hold life before the start breaking down. In my experince the expoxies that say they are waterproof, really are not. With prolonged exposure (a few hours) they become gummy and if there is no mechanical means holding parts, you can literally pull the the slabs/handle off with your bare hands.
Accra-Glass has a shelf life of 10 years, and a guarunteed hold life of 50 years.
Accra-Glass from Brownell's is tops in my book.

I usually purchase in the their "bulk" kit which is 28oz of resin and 7oz of hardener. This is usually enough to last me for a year or more. One thing about Accra-glass, it is mixed 4 parts resin to 1 part hardener. If you try to mix in too much hardener to speed up the curing (like you can with normal 2-part epoxy) it will never cure!
The stock # on what I normally order is: 081-005-028


__________________
WWW.CAFFREYKNIVES.NET

Caffreyknives@gmail.com

"Every CHOICE has a CONSEQUENCE, and all your CONSEQUENCES are a result of your CHOICES."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-10-2006, 04:56 PM
dancbr929 dancbr929 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Yakima WA
Posts: 29
Thanks Ed

We have talked about this before at the Blade show west. I need to bite the bullit and just get some Accra_Glass. Y use anything but the best.

Dan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:03 AM
SamLS SamLS is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 149
I haven't used Acraglass after finding Epoxy and resin used for boats and general fabrication. Acraglass is a bedding material for gunstocks and its fine for other uses.
I prefer the flexibility of the other systems.
I recommend starting out with West Systems Epoxy and resin. Especially for wood. Its developed for boats above and below the water line. They sell pumps for the containers which are calibrated for the perfect ratio. 1 pump of resin 1 pump of hardner and mix or 2x2 etc for more. It is thinned to penetrate the wood and is thickened with collodial silica which they also sell in little packets or tubes for convience and it makes the up to peanut butter consistancy. You can also use reinforcements with this system like fibreglass, Kevlar, Carbon fiber.

http://www.westsystem.com/

If you are bonding G10 or similar to steel I would try a heat cure toughned epoxy used for aircraft or Auto construction. If you screw up you'll have to use heat to seperate them.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:17 AM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
there's a huge, read 17 page, thread on this very topic in the archives. From the conclusions of this I bought some loctite 324 and loctite e-120hp. acra glass ranked an A, west-systems ranked a D, devcon-2 ton ranked F, golf shafting glue ranked an A as did E-120hp.

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:18 AM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
forgot one, acra glass gel ranked a C
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:25 AM
NJStricker's Avatar
NJStricker NJStricker is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,193
Here's a link to the adhesive experiment: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...=adhesive+test

See page 16 for the final "results." The opinion was, the type of adhesive depends on the type of materials you want to bond together.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-2006, 05:38 PM
SamLS SamLS is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 149
Unfortunately those tests are not representative of what this person is trying to do ( They tested bonding metal to wood ). Unless I'm misreading his question, he wants a handle that he can remove so he is bonding his handle materials together G10 to G10 in this case. I recommended the west system because its a Resin not an adhesive and allows alot of flexibility especially with reinforcements. My thinking would be a G10 handle wrapped with a reinforcement like carbon or kevlar similar to my reply on the axe handle. I did not recommend it to bond G10 to metal.

That test made some interesting points
I will mention that most cleaning procedures are not adequate and its interesting to note in the tests the amount of bond failures noted 6 out of 10 for sandblasting. Its also interesting to note that many including myself do not apply acceptable methods of preparing the surface properly for bonding. When bonding to metal typically you will clean the metal, etch, neutralize the etch, heat/dry then apply the adhesive and bond.
How many of us think of cleaning before sandblasting and never sandblast oily, siliconed or waxed parts in the same sand blaster you use in preparing surfaces for bonding.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-30-2006, 03:24 AM
Joe Walters Joe Walters is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancbr929
I am making a sword with a mortise tang handle. This sword is going to be used so I am looking for advice /glue to use for the handle. The handle will be made of G10 and will be a similar to a Japanese sword. It will make the handle so that it will come off when I pull the pins. I have used 2 part epoxies and they work well I just wanted to see what others are using for large using knives or swords.

Thanks

DAN
Is the handle going to be wrapped? If so, any good epoxy will work, I definately vote for the acraglass. If the handle's not going to be wrapped, and the sword is going to be used, then it really won't matter what adhesive you use, that handle's gonna fall apart unless it's screwed or pinned together, which kind of makes it non-removable. Put big domes on the pins, if you're using them, too.

Historically, most sword handles were wrapped to keep them together. The wrap on the handle is extremely tight, allows a little flex and stretch during a cut and this helps act as a shock absorber. It's really a great construction method.

A mortised G10 handle is going to transfer alot of the shock of the cut if it's done in a takedown mounting. I strongly suggest you go with a medium-to-soft wood, wire-wrapped or cord wrapped to keep everything together and prevent the blade from going airborne.

If you're married to G10, epoxy that sucker in there forever. If it ever needs a new handle, a little heat will break that epoxy with no problem.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-27-2006, 12:29 PM
dpanther's Avatar
dpanther dpanther is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton ON.
Posts: 92
Traditional Japanese Glue

I think that rice paste works well enough for japanese swords, not only does it hold better than you think, it's also easy to clean off (with a peace of sand paper) if you ever have to take your handle apart. And it's easy to do. Just cook plain white rice, let it cool, then mash it into a paste. A Mortar and pestle is ok to this. you might want to to rough up the where your going to put the paste so it will grab a little better. Clamp it together and clean up the excess inside and out. Let it sit over night. good luck.


__________________
It's not how much time you have... But it's WHAT you do with the short time you have that defines who you are

Last edited by dpanther; 12-27-2006 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Needed to re-word
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-15-2007, 07:55 PM
Dylan Schink Dylan Schink is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 30
Try JB weld.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:42 PM
jjh's Avatar
jjh jjh is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dartford, UK
Posts: 46
I use West Systems Epoxy it is the only epoxy Lloyds of London Insurance approve for repair of yatch hulls
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:31 PM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
JB weld??? You obviously didn't take a look at the adhesive testing thread!!

As Ed pointed out, those little packages of epoxy in WalMart are questionable because you don't know how long they've been sitting in some warehouse. They aren't designed for consistency or long shelf life.


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-17-2007, 11:46 PM
DiamondG Knives's Avatar
DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dardanelle, Arkansas
Posts: 2,101
Send a message via Yahoo to DiamondG Knives
Would your hndle design allow pins, or better, hidden head screw type fasteners on the outside edge of the handle and then grind the profile? This would allow the traditional pin placement for a takedown handle yet also allow the benifit of a mechanical bond as well as an adheasive. Just my $0.02

God Bless
Mike


__________________
"I cherish the Hammer of Thor, but I praise the hand of God"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-17-2008, 12:11 PM
MMOMOH-55 MMOMOH-55 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fort Mill SC
Posts: 19
Just came across this thread and I am confused. They say that the West system wasn't any good. I am wondering how they used it. I build wooden boats and use West system completely. The resin by itself isn't a great glue for any applications that pertain to knife making but with the proper additives it ia an excellent glue. I can take 2 objects like for instance a piece of metal and a piece of wood and glue these together. Wait 24 hours and try to take the 2 items apart. The wood fibers will tear before the glue joint will give. I glue complete boats together using just enough fasteners to hold everything together until the West system glue dries. Never had one come apart yet. And the West system when properly used is completely water proof. Again I wonder how they used this product.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, knife, knife making, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved