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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 10-16-2007, 04:56 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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1095

Perhaps it's just perception, but sometimes I feel like I'm the only guy posting around the forums here who uses primarily 1095.

I have some 1080, 1084, O-1, and ATS-34 that I've used and some 52100, and 5160 that I have not, but as a green-horn newbie, the advice I got was to learn one steel before straying too far away from it.

I know there are concerns about the quick quench required for 1095, but honestly, that's easy when you clay quench. Just pull it out of the fire and dunk it. I've never had quenched 1095 fail a file test.

I guess my concern is that maybe there's a bad reputation associated with this steel that I am not aware of. When you discover that you seem to be the only guy doing something, you start to feel a bit self-concience.

I buy flat stock 1095 from Jantz at great prices and with next day delivery (just down the road). The vast majority of my efforts are stock removal, edge or clay quenched blades, and in my opinion, the stuff makes a great knife! Is it possible that I've never really seen a great knife to compare it to?


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  #2  
Old 10-16-2007, 09:01 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Re: 1095

Andy, If it aint broke, don't worry about it. I started out with 1095 and the only thing that I have against it is that it seems harder to move under the hammer than steels with a lower carbon level and that observation is based on very limited experience. If you grind blades, you aren't faced with that problem. Everyone has favorite steels and steels that they don't like for good, bad, and indifferent reasons. If you get good results with the knives that you are making, don't sweat the small stuff. If at some time you feel that you need something that will give a tougher or more flexable blade, like for a big chopper, you would probably do well to find something with not such a high carbon content.

Doug Lester


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  #3  
Old 10-17-2007, 06:28 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Andy
What Doug said.
You need to be sure you take everything you read on these forums with a grain of salt. If you have been reading them a good while you should by now be able to detect the social trend, "flocking" swings and moods of this place. It would be interesting to have someone plot out the ebbs and flows of opinion and trend. Usually comes full circle eventually.

Please don't get me wrong, there's a tremendous amount of great and useful information presented and available here on a daily basis. I have benenfitted tremendously from what's here, as have most others.

Since you have something that is working for you and working well, go with it. Experiment and deviate when you have the time as part of broadening you knowledge but don't be afraid to hold on to and use what you know to work. If you go with the tide too much you'll wind up on a strange beach or be lost at sea forever.


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  #4  
Old 10-17-2007, 01:09 PM
RICK LOWE RICK LOWE is offline
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Andy,

Have to agree totally with Doug and brother Carl. 1095 may have been shuffled to the back burner by some of the "trendy" steels that get pointed up on the Forums. It's still a very fine blade steel and your work show cases it very well. I dabble with most of the common high carbon steels as well as "mystery" recycle steel. All can become a quality blade with good heat treat technique. Just finished up a pretty big 1095 hunter that was lots of fun to make. It does respond to hammer and heat a little differently than the other steels, but I think it also grinds differently as well. Don't mean that as a negative, just an observation on how it works. Keep up your fine work!
Rick
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2007, 05:14 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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Thanks fellas. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed the boat somewhere.

It seemed like the 'cool kids' never mentioned 1095 except to steer newbies to something inexpensive for practice. I want to offer excellent blades to my buyers, and like it or not, most will pass sweeping judgements on a knife simply based on steel choice (especially when they consider themselves 'in the know') I guess it's their money...

It's just hard to convince someone that what they consider to be fact is really just opinion. A cop friend of mine has a prized Benchmade with a tanto point. He says that he'll only carry a tanto point because it's been 'proven' that it's the best for defense and strength. I think in that same ninja magazine he read that a chisle grind is inherently stronger than any other type and that ATS-34 was the only steel worthy of a knife that your life may depend on. I guess this is really a new conversation, but to tie it back to 1095--I just wish the 'trends' Carl spoke so well about, didn't glamorize one perfectly good steel more than another. They all have a place in blade making, and I think that properly heat treated 1095 with good design and geometry can serve just about any purpose with high competence or even valor.

I'll stick with it guys. Thanks for the pep talk!


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  #6  
Old 10-17-2007, 06:53 PM
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mete mete is offline
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The facts are that 1095 has been used very successfully for knives for many years !!! Any negative comments come from poorly HT'ed blades and the 'it's not the newest and super high tech steel' !!
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2007, 12:57 AM
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I seem to recall that Paul Chen, of the House of Hanwei, makes his entire line of combat quality katanas out of 1095.

To my knowledge, these are the standard among those who seriously pursue the art.

Footnote:
I was evaluating a neglected Hanwei blade with no furniture and dropped it. By instinct, I caught with my left hand. If not for my wedding ring, I'd be missing a finger (or two). As it was, I got about 8 stitches and found out what my muscle tissue looks like! This was a blade that was rusty, chipped and banged up from abusive steel on steel training, and it still had a wicked edge!


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  #8  
Old 10-18-2007, 01:58 PM
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Andy,

I think Ed Caffrey had mentioned something in the past about 1095 quality not being up to the standards that it used to be, so that may be why you don't see it used often (that, and it's not a new sexy uber steel). Maybe Ed will check in with his comments.

Nathan
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2007, 09:40 PM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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1095 is a great steel, Don Fogg uses it on many of his swords and obtains a great Hamon. Nothing wrong with it. The only thing I have read is that the carbon content is not always in the .9-1.0 range but rather at the .75-.80. Like mentioned before if it aint broke don't fix it.

Chuck


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  #10  
Old 10-18-2007, 10:42 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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It is getting harder to find quality virgin 1095, that is, un-recycled steel without a long list of impurities. 1095 may or may not be held to as high a chemical tolerence as W1 tool steel, which is basically the same thing. W2 is the same thing plus a splash of vanadium, and almost impossible to get these days.

I still like 1095, I've made some good knives out of it, but after the last batch I ordered I decided to find another source of steel. I have no experience with Jantz's 1095, maybe it's better quality.
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Craig B. Craig B. is offline
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Andy,
I have been making knives for almost 19 years. I still watch the forum but don't post as much as I used to due to time constraints.
Anyway, I've made several knives from 1095 and when properly heat treated it makes a wonderful steel. Holds a WICKED edge!!!! I can't no where near get the edge on a stainless knife I can on 1095.
Don't feel discouraged just because you might not be using the newest "bestest" steel everyone else is using. Make a quality product and you will continue to have repeat customers, even when everyone else is chasing dreams.... Just my 2 cents worth for what it's worth


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  #12  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:08 AM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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Andrew dude,

Howdy, I have a friend and mentor who has been a masterbladesmith 25 years
and all he uses is 1095 from Admiral.
Check out his website:
wildwolfforge.com
Old Dan makes swords and classic stuff.
Roman short swords, claymores, ect.
He can make a cheap knife for $50.00 but prefers to sell to reinactor types.
I forget why he likes the 1095 but he said the same thing other have here:
Stick with one steel and become familiar with it.

I have 64 blades, skinners, ready to heat treat today.
And having never heat treated steel successfully, I am parinoid.
The steels are 1095 and 1075.
I know theoretically what to do I have just never done it right yet.
ie. Heat till non-magnetic and quench within one second
in used motor oil with 20% transmission fluid in it.
Hope this works.


Nice web site and I used to have a motorcycle too!
Yamaha 850 triple, 'Old Thunder', was her name.
I miss her,
but we crashed and she's gone.
Dern!


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Last edited by Jacktheknife; 11-17-2007 at 11:38 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:47 AM
AcridSaint AcridSaint is offline
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Hi Jack, you might want to try some vegetable oil to quench in. It'll be a little faster than the motor oil mix, I think. More importantly, it's not going to let off any toxic fumes and it's still plenty cheap.


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  #14  
Old 11-16-2007, 10:54 AM
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Hi andrew,
Just to let you know I use 1095 on almost all my forged blades.I have some 1075 that I was going to experiment with mainly for hammon design and effect.I really like the steel.I find myself getting further and further away from stainless (except for my tacticals)Which I still give the option of 1095.I tried O1 but didn't like the results as well(probably just personal preferance.)


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  #15  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:55 PM
Wade Holloway Wade Holloway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger1
I tried O1 but didn't like the results as well(probably just personal preferance.)
What kind of results were you not happy with? Please explain.
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