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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2013, 01:38 PM
mitchmountain mitchmountain is offline
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New knives I finished

I have been a long time lurker here, and really appreciate some of the knowledge I've picked up and how everybody interacts on the board (not alot of drama). I've been building knives since 2011 and have made quite a few duds, but they're finally starting to take shape and come out the way I envisioned them.

[IMG][/IMG]





They are both A2 with a forced patina finish, desert ironwood scales and brass guard and buttcap. They aren't perfect but have changed alot from my first 10-15 attempts. I have to give credit to RW Wilson, I took a class with him about a month ago and moved me forward in my skill set alot faster than the trial and error I had been working at. All comments appreciated.

God Bless

MM
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:04 PM
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Walt- Walt- is offline
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Very impressive. It looks like you are getting the hang of it pretty well.
Where can I find information on the construction techniques for the patina, guard and butt plate.

You know imitation is the highest form of flattery.


Update: I just was on You Tube learning about forcing a patina on a knife blade. The learning never stops.


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Last edited by Walt-; 06-12-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:32 PM
mitchmountain mitchmountain is offline
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Patina is really simple, it works on carbon, non stainless steels. All I do is take a paper towel, soak it in white vinegar, wrap the blade in the paper towel and leave it set for a couple hours. Take it off and rinse. You want to keep it off the brass b/c it will oxidize the brass also, but that in itself is not a bad look either.

Thanks,

MM
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:05 AM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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Very nice shapes, designs, and finishes. The only thing that bugs me just a bit is that they appear to be full-tang, yet I see no pins or bolts...


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  #5  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:19 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Pretty nice Mitch.
How about filling out your profile a bit more. You might be closer to a lot of us than you might think.

GH - If he's learning from the same RW Wilson I know, there are hidden pins to secure the scales and the bolsters and butt caps are pinned as well. His construction (if this is the case) is very solid and secure.


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  #6  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 AM
mitchmountain mitchmountain is offline
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They are both stick tang, the buttcap is pinned in a way, but the guards are not. they are hammered on and sealed with JB. There are no pins in the scales, hidden or otherwise. I have been advised that if properly secured with epoxy, the pins would offer no extra support other than mental. I am not sold on this as of yet, and may still add pins to the knives, but the man who told me this had been making knives for the last 40 years professionally. Even though he does put some in, they are only for aesthetic purposes not functional. I am very interested in other maker's opinion on this and open to comments on the good and bad of this design.

MM
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:48 PM
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NorCal Nate NorCal Nate is offline
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I'd trust the pins.. epoxy and the like are just a moisture barrier. At least that was my understanding..

On my scales I always drill a bunch of holes 25% through each scale. I drill a bunch of extra holes in the tang as well, which allows epoxy to grab scale to scale. But I still pins in as well.

~Nate
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:44 PM
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BCROB BCROB is offline
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Well done , great patinas
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:14 AM
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WynnKnives WynnKnives is offline
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"There are many ways to skin a cat"

But I'm a firm believer some ways are much better than others. Personally when using normal pins I use epoxy and peen them. Even if you don't peen them it provides more area for the epoxy to bond, and provide protection against shearing forces (if a full tang, which is 90% of my knives). And even better with a full tang you can taper the bolsters to add holding power. Also if it's metal your putting a pin through and you peen it over there is no possible way that its going to come off, unless you drill it out, rather than if you just epoxy it.

No disrespect to the fellow you talked to, but I don't see how he could say that, everything I know of physics and mechanical properties (I don't have a doctorate in physics by any stretch of the imagination) would tell me that there are not many cases if any in which pins wouldn't add strength.
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:13 AM
mitchmountain mitchmountain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynnKnives View Post
"There are many ways to skin a cat"

But I'm a firm believer some ways are much better than others. Personally when using normal pins I use epoxy and peen them. Even if you don't peen them it provides more area for the epoxy to bond, and provide protection against shearing forces (if a full tang, which is 90% of my knives). And even better with a full tang you can taper the bolsters to add holding power. Also if it's metal your putting a pin through and you peen it over there is no possible way that its going to come off, unless you drill it out, rather than if you just epoxy it.

No disrespect to the fellow you talked to, but I don't see how he could say that, everything I know of physics and mechanical properties (I don't have a doctorate in physics by any stretch of the imagination) would tell me that there are not many cases if any in which pins wouldn't add strength.
When thinking about it critically your point cannot be argued with, putting in a guard against sheer force for the scale would help prevent it disconnecting from the surface it is epoxied to. I would say, and I'm not saying that there is no need to pin, but I would say that using a knife for its intended purposes would never stress 2 ton epoxy to its specified limits. In the case with these knives the scales are epoxied not only together, but also to the guard and to the butt cap, basically securing them on 3 surfaces.

MM
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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NorCal Nate NorCal Nate is offline
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I still think if the knife was dropped and hit just right there is a good chance the scales or scale would pop off. Adding pins would only add more strengh.
I think your blades look great by the way!
~Nate
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:59 AM
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WynnKnives WynnKnives is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmountain View Post
When thinking about it critically your point cannot be argued with, putting in a guard against sheer force for the scale would help prevent it disconnecting from the surface it is epoxied to. I would say, and I'm not saying that there is no need to pin, but I would say that using a knife for its intended purposes would never stress 2 ton epoxy to its specified limits. In the case with these knives the scales are epoxied not only together, but also to the guard and to the butt cap, basically securing them on 3 surfaces.

MM
I would definitely agree that if used for intended purpose there would be no issues. But as a maker I like to consider that knives (and tools in general) get used for a lot things that they aren't intended for. Also not even for abuse that is done purposely, but often tools are dropped and things of that nature. I would like to think that even if my knives are abused, dropped, and whatever else gets thrown at them they would withstand the maximum amount of crap that I can build them for. Something to consider.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2013, 11:37 AM
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jank jank is offline
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Pins or corby screws are the way to go; I agree with the others, the knife is a tool and too many times someone uses a knife for a different tool.


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  #14  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:41 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I need a point of clarification, a common problem with old men. You says that the knives have stick tangs but you also talk about the handle scales. Are those rabbeted handles? If so, I would still pin any future knives that I built that way. The pins will protect the glue joint against a sharp shearing blow that might pop it.

Even with a handle shaped from a solid block I like to back it up with a pin, though I do have a knife on the bench with a coat of boiled linseed oil drying that doesn't have a pin. It only has a 2 3/4" blade and I don't it will have much stress that would loosen the tang. Besides, I forgot to mark the center line of the tang on the block and drill the pin hole until after I shaped the handle.

Doug


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  #15  
Old 06-16-2013, 03:30 PM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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I agree that pins will help make for a stronger handle. Remember that many epoxies will start to degrade after 8-10 years and you want your handles solid much longer then that.

Gary


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