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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #31  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:24 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ray...don't get me wrong from my post to JM...i did order both 15n20 and 1084 and probilly more than i need right now but...mainly because i had a lil extra cash this week and when i do try again i would rather have it than have to worry about the money and having to order and wait for it. (even tho it dont take long). The questions i asked in the last post are answers that i would like to know especially about the acid. Also it was a reply to his post. as i said yesterday when i get the new steel i am definitely going to first forge a blade from the 1084 i ordered. I am sure i will try again with the Damascus maybe a lil sooner than you would recommend thats my stubbornness again but i will definitely forge a blade first...Now if i am going to forge 2 blades or 10 blades before trying the damascus again i dont know. I am going to take it one at a time. All i know now is next is a 1084 forged blade ill see where i am going to go from there. First blade i am going to try and make something the shape and size of a marine k-bar style knife. I would also like to try and forge a double edge dagger. Just going to take it one at a time and see where it brings me. I was also thinking i have a few pieces of mild steel plate 1/4 thick and also some flat bar. So i thought until i get the new steel (tomorow or maybe monday) taking this scap mild steel and just messing around to get a better understanding of how to move and manipulate the steel in different ways. Right now i have a 4 pound cross peen hammer, 2.5 pound cross peen, 4 pound straight peen, and a WHOLE BUNCH of smaller regular ball peen and claw hammers. I made a spring fuller tool ( i need to shorten a bit to fit on the rail anvil and not take up all of the space.) I also made a flatter and plan on making a bending fork and a wedge shape cutting tool (dont know the name for the wedge). I figured if i do this i can see exactly what these hammers and tools do and how to properly use them.....any other hardy tools you recommend making? sound like a plan?
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  #32  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:28 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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oh also forgot this morning i took another look at the steel with no pattern and if you look at it straight on it looks just as decribed yesterday but if you hold it at just the right angle there is a pattern in there just VERY faint and only at the right angle. maybe not etched long enough....i had it in the ferric chloride for 15-20 mins
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  #33  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:30 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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All you really need is a 2 lb cross peen and an anvil.......


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  #34  
Old 11-05-2015, 05:23 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Honestly, if you have 1 1/2 wide x 3/16 or 1/4 thick stock there is no reason to forge your kabar. You'll end up grinding off all your forging and it will take twice as long. The only time I forge is when the material isn't close to the shape of the knife. You'll see what I'm talking about when you do it.
As far as hammers, I've got a large assortment from 32 ball peen to 10 lb sledge. My favorite is a 3lb for forging bevels. A 2lb would take forever to move the metal. lol. (Ray uses a press)

How far did you polish your blade? Some times it takes multiple etchings. I did one that took 7 etching cycles to get the pattern out.
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2015, 05:56 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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15 - 20 minutes is probably 15 to 20 times too long if you have the ferric chloride properly mixed 1 part FeCl to 3 or 4 parts water. Then, 30 seconds is usually enough to get the pattern. If you aren't happy with the look then another 30 seconds, and maybe another after that. If you haven't gotten the look you want by then you probably aren't going to get it until you change something.

I didn't say it wasn't good to have a variety of hammers, I said one is all you need. And, I was specifically referring to forging a blade and not referring to making damascus (for that you will need more than one hammer). And James is right that if you have stock bars in that size it scarcely makes sense to forge it to shape though, I know, many guys do so suit yourself on that. I guess it comes down to do you actually want to make a knife or are you just interested in hitting hot steel.......


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  #36  
Old 11-06-2015, 08:52 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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so you guys mean is better to do a stock removal with that size steel? what if i just grinded it down to make it thinner both ways before forging....i have done a couple of stock removal i want to try and forge one in the propane forge. is there another style knife that would work better with that size steel than the kbar style? out of all the stuff i read only found 2 where people mixed the acid and probilly about 20 with no mix...i used it straight would that be why there is no pattern..how far should i polish it before etching... i guess ill try mixing it with watter
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2015, 09:00 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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oh also i think one of the pages i came across was mixed with vinegar i think it was awhile ago i read that i might have it wrong
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2015, 09:07 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Just speaking for me, if I were given two pieces of 3/16" steel and with one forged the blade out and the other stock removal, starting at the same time I'd have the stock removal ready for heat treat at the same time the forge work was done. After that I'd still have grinding to do to clean the forged blade up. The only advantage forging gives using bar stock is say, you have a 7" piece of 1084 but want a 6" blade. Well you can forge the tang and tip in and probably have your 6" blade if not a little longer. But that being said, there's a lot that can go wrong in the forge from grain growth to hidden cracks and stress risers and the ever present carbon loss (taking too long).

On your Damascus blade, hand sand down to at least 600 grit. From my experience, the higher the layer count the finer the sandpaper needed to bring it out. Do your etchings multiple times. Also, if you heat treat isn't right it can muddy the pattern.
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  #39  
Old 11-06-2015, 09:20 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok jm yeh ill have more than enough to do both i ended up order alot since i had the money at the time. i figured better to get it while i can than run out and not have the money at the time............what do you think about diluting the acid
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2015, 09:46 AM
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Naboyle Naboyle is offline
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Use distilled water mixed 3-1, don't use tap water or well water or spring water if you want the best solution.
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  #41  
Old 11-06-2015, 09:54 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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thanks naboyle....the first time i searched this most people did it straight and now i found a few doing exactly what you just said
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2015, 02:34 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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hey guys i seen on a couple sites people using muriatic acid one of them said it make the pattern more distinct any truth to that far more people use ferric so i would assume that would be better right
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I don't think the etchant has much to do with making a distinct pattern. Proper heat control and heat treatment and the finishing of the metal prior to etching has a lot more to do with it. Muriatic acid is ACID and, personally, I don't want that anywhere near my blades or even in my shop where the fumes from it will corrode any metal it can find. FeCl is controllable and can provide all the contrast anyone could ask for if you do your work on the damascus correctly......


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  #44  
Old 11-06-2015, 07:14 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok so today (after picking up the 100 billion leaves in the yard...at least i got a ride on mower that sucks em up but still a HUGE pain in the ass especially when 6 hours later more have taken there place) well after that... first i hand sanded up to 600... i also diluted the ferric 3-1 distilled water and etched.....i watched it as it went and after a while started to see a lil bit of a pattern so i left it in a lil longer...it was very very faint but this time you could see a lil bit of a patter insted of just a grayish mess...i took 800 grit sandpaper and hit it very lightly as i read that can brighten it up a little....but still verry faint you really had to try to see it. so did more reading and i took some muriatic acid and diluted to about 8-1 with distilled water. i was shooting for a 10-1 but ran out of distilled water and the acid was already in the bucket...100% better than the ferric. dont get me wrong its not perfect probilly due to this being my first attempt. its a dark pattern more of the steel is dark than light but i guess that should be expected as i used more 1080 than 15n20. and its not the best pattern in the world and actually one side is a very loose random pattern and the other is a really loose twist. i didnt sand it with 800 as i did the first etch wich definitely brightened it up but i plan on doing that tomorrow just to see how much i can brighten it up before cutting and grinding it into a blade. maybe i was doing something wrong with the ferric but the diluted muriatic with out a doubt was a HUGE improvement. ill try and post a pic tomorrow i dont know where my camera is and i dont have one on my phone anymore ill have to look for it
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2015, 10:51 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Hey Ray....remember when you said to weld a tang onto the damascus....i should make the tang piece out of 1080 right it would be stronger than using mild or some other steel and would hold better since they are same steel right?(well minus the nickle steel) i have just enough 1080 left to make one....i think (still didnt get new shipment yet i guess monday)
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